Something I think people are missing - the idea of thinking "about the end way too much" and "it's fun to fantasize" - I think some people are missing what that means. That is suicidal thinking. I'm seeing a counselor now about this. When you think about death, you are fantasizing about leaving this stressful world and going somewhere with no worries, a place of rest. (This is particularly true if you believe in an afterlife.) And like I said earlier, in this song, ToP is saying that the way to stay alive is to let go of that need to control - particularly that need to control the end of your life - let go of it and give control to a higher power. Don't hurry toward death -- TAKE YOUR TIME. Let God do the controlling and just RIDE in the passenger seat. You're fallen. And you're continuing to fall. So just drop into God's arms, sit back, let God drive, and enjoy the ride.
@Moonbeam86 "(This is particularly true if you believe in an afterlife.)"
I am an atheist and also in counseling. I would have thought the opposite made more sense. If someone believes in an afterlife, presumably they would at least consider the possibility that suicide could lead to hell or some other kind of after-life punishment. Whereas, someone who doesn't believe in an afterlife likely sees an end to their pain, without obvious personal consequences.
@Moonbeam86 "(This is particularly true if you believe in an afterlife.)"
I am an atheist and also in counseling. I would have thought the opposite made more sense. If someone believes in an afterlife, presumably they would at least consider the possibility that suicide could lead to hell or some other kind of after-life punishment. Whereas, someone who doesn't believe in an afterlife likely sees an end to their pain, without obvious personal consequences.
@dan1876588 Well, when I mentioned afterlife, I was referring to the words before it: "going to a place of rest." My point was that "going" somewhere would be a more prevalent thought if you actually believe there's somewhere to go. Didn't mean suicidal thoughts are more prevalent if you believe in an afterlife.
@dan1876588 Well, when I mentioned afterlife, I was referring to the words before it: "going to a place of rest." My point was that "going" somewhere would be a more prevalent thought if you actually believe there's somewhere to go. Didn't mean suicidal thoughts are more prevalent if you believe in an afterlife.
I agree with everything you said. The suicide/hell/punishment connection is widely believed (even though it's not biblical nor espoused by modern theologians). But I think there's also a connection between faith and meaning — that a belief in a higher power usually leads to...
I agree with everything you said. The suicide/hell/punishment connection is widely believed (even though it's not biblical nor espoused by modern theologians). But I think there's also a connection between faith and meaning — that a belief in a higher power usually leads to purpose. It's certainly something twenty one pilots explores in their songs. I know that my own exploration of apologetics and theology has opened my eyes to the possibility of a much greater purpose, giving my life new meaning and purpose and combatting my own suicidal thoughts. I wear a leather cuff with the word "faith" on it over the place where I'm tempted to cut my wrist — a reminder that there just might be something bigger and more meaningful than me, and a reason I'm still here, and that faith in that "bigger" God will get me through each day.
I think we each need to find meaning. (That, again, is a common theme in twenty one pilots songs.) I hope you're able to find meaning in your life as well.
@Moonbeam86 Look I know I should not question your beliefs, apparently they help you but...
-"I know that my own exploration of apologetics and theology has opened my eyes to the possibility of a much greater purpose, giving my life new meaning and purpose and combatting my own suicidal thoughts."- 1. Have you ever looked at the criticisms of apologetics? I recommend Steve Shives and his 'an Atheist reads' series (he goes through in considerable detail individual apologetics books and attempts analyse them with an open mind). 2. You believe in a God that allows "Every minute a person attempts...
@Moonbeam86 Look I know I should not question your beliefs, apparently they help you but...
-"I know that my own exploration of apologetics and theology has opened my eyes to the possibility of a much greater purpose, giving my life new meaning and purpose and combatting my own suicidal thoughts."- 1. Have you ever looked at the criticisms of apologetics? I recommend Steve Shives and his 'an Atheist reads' series (he goes through in considerable detail individual apologetics books and attempts analyse them with an open mind). 2. You believe in a God that allows "Every minute a person attempts suicide; every day 70 Americans take their own lives (nearly three every hour)." You understand how difficult depression is and yet you believe God inflicts/ or allows you to suffer depression? If that's not bad enough your God allows "Approximately 3.1 million children die from hunger each year." Surely, logically, if God exists he/she does not give a shit about you?
"I think we each need to find meaning. (That, again, is a common theme in twenty one pilots songs.) I hope you're able to find meaning in your life as well." I really appreciate that but I hope to find that meaning from my friends and family not being that almost certainly does not give a damn about me or even exist. I wish you the best in the daily struggle, that is life.
Something I think people are missing - the idea of thinking "about the end way too much" and "it's fun to fantasize" - I think some people are missing what that means. That is suicidal thinking. I'm seeing a counselor now about this. When you think about death, you are fantasizing about leaving this stressful world and going somewhere with no worries, a place of rest. (This is particularly true if you believe in an afterlife.) And like I said earlier, in this song, ToP is saying that the way to stay alive is to let go of that need to control - particularly that need to control the end of your life - let go of it and give control to a higher power. Don't hurry toward death -- TAKE YOUR TIME. Let God do the controlling and just RIDE in the passenger seat. You're fallen. And you're continuing to fall. So just drop into God's arms, sit back, let God drive, and enjoy the ride.
@Moonbeam86 "(This is particularly true if you believe in an afterlife.)" I am an atheist and also in counseling. I would have thought the opposite made more sense. If someone believes in an afterlife, presumably they would at least consider the possibility that suicide could lead to hell or some other kind of after-life punishment. Whereas, someone who doesn't believe in an afterlife likely sees an end to their pain, without obvious personal consequences.
@Moonbeam86 "(This is particularly true if you believe in an afterlife.)" I am an atheist and also in counseling. I would have thought the opposite made more sense. If someone believes in an afterlife, presumably they would at least consider the possibility that suicide could lead to hell or some other kind of after-life punishment. Whereas, someone who doesn't believe in an afterlife likely sees an end to their pain, without obvious personal consequences.
@dan1876588 Well, when I mentioned afterlife, I was referring to the words before it: "going to a place of rest." My point was that "going" somewhere would be a more prevalent thought if you actually believe there's somewhere to go. Didn't mean suicidal thoughts are more prevalent if you believe in an afterlife.
@dan1876588 Well, when I mentioned afterlife, I was referring to the words before it: "going to a place of rest." My point was that "going" somewhere would be a more prevalent thought if you actually believe there's somewhere to go. Didn't mean suicidal thoughts are more prevalent if you believe in an afterlife.
I agree with everything you said. The suicide/hell/punishment connection is widely believed (even though it's not biblical nor espoused by modern theologians). But I think there's also a connection between faith and meaning — that a belief in a higher power usually leads to...
I agree with everything you said. The suicide/hell/punishment connection is widely believed (even though it's not biblical nor espoused by modern theologians). But I think there's also a connection between faith and meaning — that a belief in a higher power usually leads to purpose. It's certainly something twenty one pilots explores in their songs. I know that my own exploration of apologetics and theology has opened my eyes to the possibility of a much greater purpose, giving my life new meaning and purpose and combatting my own suicidal thoughts. I wear a leather cuff with the word "faith" on it over the place where I'm tempted to cut my wrist — a reminder that there just might be something bigger and more meaningful than me, and a reason I'm still here, and that faith in that "bigger" God will get me through each day.
I think we each need to find meaning. (That, again, is a common theme in twenty one pilots songs.) I hope you're able to find meaning in your life as well.
@Moonbeam86 Look I know I should not question your beliefs, apparently they help you but... -"I know that my own exploration of apologetics and theology has opened my eyes to the possibility of a much greater purpose, giving my life new meaning and purpose and combatting my own suicidal thoughts."- 1. Have you ever looked at the criticisms of apologetics? I recommend Steve Shives and his 'an Atheist reads' series (he goes through in considerable detail individual apologetics books and attempts analyse them with an open mind). 2. You believe in a God that allows "Every minute a person attempts...
@Moonbeam86 Look I know I should not question your beliefs, apparently they help you but... -"I know that my own exploration of apologetics and theology has opened my eyes to the possibility of a much greater purpose, giving my life new meaning and purpose and combatting my own suicidal thoughts."- 1. Have you ever looked at the criticisms of apologetics? I recommend Steve Shives and his 'an Atheist reads' series (he goes through in considerable detail individual apologetics books and attempts analyse them with an open mind). 2. You believe in a God that allows "Every minute a person attempts suicide; every day 70 Americans take their own lives (nearly three every hour)." You understand how difficult depression is and yet you believe God inflicts/ or allows you to suffer depression? If that's not bad enough your God allows "Approximately 3.1 million children die from hunger each year." Surely, logically, if God exists he/she does not give a shit about you?
"I think we each need to find meaning. (That, again, is a common theme in twenty one pilots songs.) I hope you're able to find meaning in your life as well." I really appreciate that but I hope to find that meaning from my friends and family not being that almost certainly does not give a damn about me or even exist. I wish you the best in the daily struggle, that is life.