I was shocked when this song came out, since in many of Nightwish's songs in the past consisted of some mention or another about religions and beliefs, especially Christianity. It was one of the things I loved about their music, how Tuomas seemed to be accepting of everything and had a fascination with it.
Even in the previous album with "Last Ride of the Day", there's the line "what's God is not the spark that started life". Then we got slammed with this, with "Behold the crown of a heavenly spy / Forged in blood of those who defy / Kiss the ring, praise and sing / He loves you dwelling in fear and sin", and so forth. It makes me wonder what happened in those four years, and why Tuomas all of a sudden has taken this turn.
I won't go too personal into it, and though I am very disappointed by this, all I really want to know is why his thoughts on it changed so much. From my own personal experience and I'm sure many of you have too, religion can be extremely toxic and hurtful, so I assume something along those lines must have happened towards him, so much so that he felt as if this needed to be written. I'm gonna sound petty here, but it soured the whole album for me. We go from listening to lyrics that explore beliefs in a beautiful way, to harshly speaking against a religion and marking it as false; a getaway from reality, which to some, may be true, but to others it's a way of life.
Now, I see where he's coming from, but that doesn't change the fact that I think this is unnecessary. I understand that the whole concept of this album is evolution and how everyone came to be without the aid of some supernatural being, but was this really needed?
@Sapherd I have to agree, and this is coming from someone who has explored both New Age and Christianity. I really like Nightwish for what they did, unlike various metal bands that like to attack these things a lot. Sad to see that the band gets derailed into just another metal band angry at religion.
@Sapherd I have to agree, and this is coming from someone who has explored both New Age and Christianity. I really like Nightwish for what they did, unlike various metal bands that like to attack these things a lot. Sad to see that the band gets derailed into just another metal band angry at religion.
@Sapherd@Cyndane
I agree with both of these comments. I am also sad at this turn in the lyric writing (and the inclusion of the Richard Dawkins commentaries/voice overs).
On the plus side the 2 and 3 disc versions have the instrumentals/orchestrals which I've been listening to instead.
Lyrics aside, I do think that Floor's vocal skills are amazing on this album - it's just a shame about the poor lyrics.
@Sapherd@Cyndane
I agree with both of these comments. I am also sad at this turn in the lyric writing (and the inclusion of the Richard Dawkins commentaries/voice overs).
On the plus side the 2 and 3 disc versions have the instrumentals/orchestrals which I've been listening to instead.
Lyrics aside, I do think that Floor's vocal skills are amazing on this album - it's just a shame about the poor lyrics.
@Sapherd I completely agree with everything said here. I don't mind Dawkins much, his voice is good and he's supposed to be a renowned scientist (though the single video of his I've seen presented a nonsensical argument); and anyone denying evolution is a tool (though they have every right to do so, I guess)... but damn, Tuomas. I loved you, mate, even before the 200%-spot-on (in my opinion) line from Last Ride of the Day. No need to suddenly hate on everything.
(Also, as a wannabe-writer of a fantasy novel, a title such as "Weak Fantasy" is directly attacking my insecurity....
@Sapherd I completely agree with everything said here. I don't mind Dawkins much, his voice is good and he's supposed to be a renowned scientist (though the single video of his I've seen presented a nonsensical argument); and anyone denying evolution is a tool (though they have every right to do so, I guess)... but damn, Tuomas. I loved you, mate, even before the 200%-spot-on (in my opinion) line from Last Ride of the Day. No need to suddenly hate on everything.
(Also, as a wannabe-writer of a fantasy novel, a title such as "Weak Fantasy" is directly attacking my insecurity. :D)
@Yuuri You can notice the "My Opinion" tag at the top of the question; you can select tags when you post a reply.
@Sapherd I wouldn't say that people denying evolution are tools. Microevolution is one thing, but evolution as Darwin tried to depict it (i.e. suggesting that we all come from one common ancestor) is just as much based on faith than religion. Lots of the arguments used by Darwin have been proven untrue and many evolution scientists are sceptic. Unfortunately, the biology textbooks still see it as truth even though the theory doesn't hold the road anymore.
@Sapherd I wouldn't say that people denying evolution are tools. Microevolution is one thing, but evolution as Darwin tried to depict it (i.e. suggesting that we all come from one common ancestor) is just as much based on faith than religion. Lots of the arguments used by Darwin have been proven untrue and many evolution scientists are sceptic. Unfortunately, the biology textbooks still see it as truth even though the theory doesn't hold the road anymore.
I was shocked when this song came out, since in many of Nightwish's songs in the past consisted of some mention or another about religions and beliefs, especially Christianity. It was one of the things I loved about their music, how Tuomas seemed to be accepting of everything and had a fascination with it.
Even in the previous album with "Last Ride of the Day", there's the line "what's God is not the spark that started life". Then we got slammed with this, with "Behold the crown of a heavenly spy / Forged in blood of those who defy / Kiss the ring, praise and sing / He loves you dwelling in fear and sin", and so forth. It makes me wonder what happened in those four years, and why Tuomas all of a sudden has taken this turn.
I won't go too personal into it, and though I am very disappointed by this, all I really want to know is why his thoughts on it changed so much. From my own personal experience and I'm sure many of you have too, religion can be extremely toxic and hurtful, so I assume something along those lines must have happened towards him, so much so that he felt as if this needed to be written. I'm gonna sound petty here, but it soured the whole album for me. We go from listening to lyrics that explore beliefs in a beautiful way, to harshly speaking against a religion and marking it as false; a getaway from reality, which to some, may be true, but to others it's a way of life.
Now, I see where he's coming from, but that doesn't change the fact that I think this is unnecessary. I understand that the whole concept of this album is evolution and how everyone came to be without the aid of some supernatural being, but was this really needed?
@Sapherd I have to agree, and this is coming from someone who has explored both New Age and Christianity. I really like Nightwish for what they did, unlike various metal bands that like to attack these things a lot. Sad to see that the band gets derailed into just another metal band angry at religion.
@Sapherd I have to agree, and this is coming from someone who has explored both New Age and Christianity. I really like Nightwish for what they did, unlike various metal bands that like to attack these things a lot. Sad to see that the band gets derailed into just another metal band angry at religion.
@Sapherd @Cyndane I agree with both of these comments. I am also sad at this turn in the lyric writing (and the inclusion of the Richard Dawkins commentaries/voice overs). On the plus side the 2 and 3 disc versions have the instrumentals/orchestrals which I've been listening to instead. Lyrics aside, I do think that Floor's vocal skills are amazing on this album - it's just a shame about the poor lyrics.
@Sapherd @Cyndane I agree with both of these comments. I am also sad at this turn in the lyric writing (and the inclusion of the Richard Dawkins commentaries/voice overs). On the plus side the 2 and 3 disc versions have the instrumentals/orchestrals which I've been listening to instead. Lyrics aside, I do think that Floor's vocal skills are amazing on this album - it's just a shame about the poor lyrics.
@Sapherd I thought this site is for deciphering lyrics, not for telling others your important personal opinion about them.
@Sapherd I thought this site is for deciphering lyrics, not for telling others your important personal opinion about them.
@Sapherd I completely agree with everything said here. I don't mind Dawkins much, his voice is good and he's supposed to be a renowned scientist (though the single video of his I've seen presented a nonsensical argument); and anyone denying evolution is a tool (though they have every right to do so, I guess)... but damn, Tuomas. I loved you, mate, even before the 200%-spot-on (in my opinion) line from Last Ride of the Day. No need to suddenly hate on everything. (Also, as a wannabe-writer of a fantasy novel, a title such as "Weak Fantasy" is directly attacking my insecurity....
@Sapherd I completely agree with everything said here. I don't mind Dawkins much, his voice is good and he's supposed to be a renowned scientist (though the single video of his I've seen presented a nonsensical argument); and anyone denying evolution is a tool (though they have every right to do so, I guess)... but damn, Tuomas. I loved you, mate, even before the 200%-spot-on (in my opinion) line from Last Ride of the Day. No need to suddenly hate on everything. (Also, as a wannabe-writer of a fantasy novel, a title such as "Weak Fantasy" is directly attacking my insecurity. :D)
@Yuuri You can notice the "My Opinion" tag at the top of the question; you can select tags when you post a reply.
@Sapherd I wouldn't say that people denying evolution are tools. Microevolution is one thing, but evolution as Darwin tried to depict it (i.e. suggesting that we all come from one common ancestor) is just as much based on faith than religion. Lots of the arguments used by Darwin have been proven untrue and many evolution scientists are sceptic. Unfortunately, the biology textbooks still see it as truth even though the theory doesn't hold the road anymore.
@Sapherd I wouldn't say that people denying evolution are tools. Microevolution is one thing, but evolution as Darwin tried to depict it (i.e. suggesting that we all come from one common ancestor) is just as much based on faith than religion. Lots of the arguments used by Darwin have been proven untrue and many evolution scientists are sceptic. Unfortunately, the biology textbooks still see it as truth even though the theory doesn't hold the road anymore.