I have always thought that this song was mocking the concept of God. The previous posts seem to say otherwise, which is very interesting to me. I can see how people who have strong beliefs in God (clearly I am not one of them ......) would read these lyrics and see them as confirming that God loves us no matter what. To me, lyrics such as "I see you ignoring your children" and "I see you abusing the land" and even "I see you and your selective amnesia" as God being highly sarcastic - can he really forgive such behaviour so easily? I really don't think Alanis intended this to be a positive religious song, I think it was questioning how people can still believe that there is a God out there who could love us no matter what we do. I am completely willing to admit that I could be wrong about this - but when I pulled this song up on this site, I expected at least a couple of previous posts which agreed with my interpretation ..... am I completely alone in this view??
Like snowflakes, we are ALL different but NEVER completely alone!
May the whisper of the Father be the one that wakes us.
May the open hand of the Son be the one that raises us.
May the prompting of the Spirit be the one that sends us.
This day & all days & leads us safely home.
In Christ Jesus name we pray. Amen & So Be It
Like snowflakes, we are ALL different but NEVER completely alone!
May the whisper of the Father be the one that wakes us.
May the open hand of the Son be the one that raises us.
May the prompting of the Spirit be the one that sends us.
This day & all days & leads us safely home.
In Christ Jesus name we pray. Amen & So Be It
@Grayscale
you are not alone. the others, though clearly the majority, don't seem to understand alanis's wickedly dry humor one bit.. & i should know.. i was a teenage girl in the 90's (which basically makes me an expert on all things alanis) =P
the way i understand it, "still" is a mockery of western religion. she begins w/the contradictions inherent in a supreme diety & continues the contradiction theme to express god's love for these ignorant, selfish, destructive, & indignant ppl. it's a lullaby for the self-righteous. alanis was raised catholic & you've only gotta listen to "forgiven" to hear her...
@Grayscale
you are not alone. the others, though clearly the majority, don't seem to understand alanis's wickedly dry humor one bit.. & i should know.. i was a teenage girl in the 90's (which basically makes me an expert on all things alanis) =P
the way i understand it, "still" is a mockery of western religion. she begins w/the contradictions inherent in a supreme diety & continues the contradiction theme to express god's love for these ignorant, selfish, destructive, & indignant ppl. it's a lullaby for the self-righteous. alanis was raised catholic & you've only gotta listen to "forgiven" to hear her views on catholicism. in adulthood, she's a practicing buddhist, & buddhists don't worship a supreme being. instead they focus inwardly on self-improvement & they believe in personal accountability. (buddhists try to make the world a better place by being better ppl. they are not the type of ppl only concerned w/seeking forgiveness for their evils thru some diety, without ever actually having to do any better).
forgive YOURSELF & god becomes obsolete
@Grayscale "God being highly sarcastic - can he really forgive such behaviour so easily?"
@Grayscale "God being highly sarcastic - can he really forgive such behaviour so easily?"
There are two entirely different words here: "love" and "forgiveness."
There are two entirely different words here: "love" and "forgiveness."
Love is defined as: "To Will the Good." To love another is "To Will the Good of Another." God, being eternally good, always wills our good.
Love is defined as: "To Will the Good." To love another is "To Will the Good of Another." God, being eternally good, always wills our good.
For us to do something sinful has no effect on God's willing our good. To will the good of another includes willing that they flourish, and to even begin to flourish, one must stop sinning. So, God's love...
For us to do something sinful has no effect on God's willing our good. To will the good of another includes willing that they flourish, and to even begin to flourish, one must stop sinning. So, God's love for us includes his willing us to embody the good in our own lives.
That may be confusing, so let's define evil. Evil has no existence. Evil is a privation; it is the lack of one or more essential goods. Evil, like darkness, is not a thing in and of itself, but instead, a lack of something that actually does exist: the goodness of God.
So to love another is to will that they not commit such sins, and willing that is to wish them to be, and be fully, instead of less, and possibly to deprive themselves of everything.
Forgiveness is an entirely different thing than love. It has preconditions (not the least of which is that one stop doing that for which one needs to be forgiven, obviously), a necessary disposition (to will the good, or, in other words, to seek forgiveness is to respond to love), and may require that one make some kind of amends (to heal or repair the privation that one is responsible for).
Whether or not the artist was being facetious or not I take no stance on, but taken literally the lyrics describe God and his relationship to us quite well.
@Grayscale Dude, I totally agree with you man. I'm really surprised to see how others are so narrow-minded. It's like they see the religious references and automatically assume things without thinking further than their noses.
@Grayscale Dude, I totally agree with you man. I'm really surprised to see how others are so narrow-minded. It's like they see the religious references and automatically assume things without thinking further than their noses.
I have always thought that this song was mocking the concept of God. The previous posts seem to say otherwise, which is very interesting to me. I can see how people who have strong beliefs in God (clearly I am not one of them ......) would read these lyrics and see them as confirming that God loves us no matter what. To me, lyrics such as "I see you ignoring your children" and "I see you abusing the land" and even "I see you and your selective amnesia" as God being highly sarcastic - can he really forgive such behaviour so easily? I really don't think Alanis intended this to be a positive religious song, I think it was questioning how people can still believe that there is a God out there who could love us no matter what we do. I am completely willing to admit that I could be wrong about this - but when I pulled this song up on this site, I expected at least a couple of previous posts which agreed with my interpretation ..... am I completely alone in this view??
Like snowflakes, we are ALL different but NEVER completely alone! May the whisper of the Father be the one that wakes us. May the open hand of the Son be the one that raises us. May the prompting of the Spirit be the one that sends us. This day & all days & leads us safely home. In Christ Jesus name we pray. Amen & So Be It
Like snowflakes, we are ALL different but NEVER completely alone! May the whisper of the Father be the one that wakes us. May the open hand of the Son be the one that raises us. May the prompting of the Spirit be the one that sends us. This day & all days & leads us safely home. In Christ Jesus name we pray. Amen & So Be It
@Grayscale you are not alone. the others, though clearly the majority, don't seem to understand alanis's wickedly dry humor one bit.. & i should know.. i was a teenage girl in the 90's (which basically makes me an expert on all things alanis) =P the way i understand it, "still" is a mockery of western religion. she begins w/the contradictions inherent in a supreme diety & continues the contradiction theme to express god's love for these ignorant, selfish, destructive, & indignant ppl. it's a lullaby for the self-righteous. alanis was raised catholic & you've only gotta listen to "forgiven" to hear her...
@Grayscale you are not alone. the others, though clearly the majority, don't seem to understand alanis's wickedly dry humor one bit.. & i should know.. i was a teenage girl in the 90's (which basically makes me an expert on all things alanis) =P the way i understand it, "still" is a mockery of western religion. she begins w/the contradictions inherent in a supreme diety & continues the contradiction theme to express god's love for these ignorant, selfish, destructive, & indignant ppl. it's a lullaby for the self-righteous. alanis was raised catholic & you've only gotta listen to "forgiven" to hear her views on catholicism. in adulthood, she's a practicing buddhist, & buddhists don't worship a supreme being. instead they focus inwardly on self-improvement & they believe in personal accountability. (buddhists try to make the world a better place by being better ppl. they are not the type of ppl only concerned w/seeking forgiveness for their evils thru some diety, without ever actually having to do any better). forgive YOURSELF & god becomes obsolete
@Grayscale @90sHippyChick - thank you for your reply to my comment! I'm glad there is someone else out there that sees this song the way I do. :)
@Grayscale @90sHippyChick - thank you for your reply to my comment! I'm glad there is someone else out there that sees this song the way I do. :)
@Grayscale "God being highly sarcastic - can he really forgive such behaviour so easily?"
@Grayscale "God being highly sarcastic - can he really forgive such behaviour so easily?"
There are two entirely different words here: "love" and "forgiveness."
There are two entirely different words here: "love" and "forgiveness."
Love is defined as: "To Will the Good." To love another is "To Will the Good of Another." God, being eternally good, always wills our good.
Love is defined as: "To Will the Good." To love another is "To Will the Good of Another." God, being eternally good, always wills our good.
For us to do something sinful has no effect on God's willing our good. To will the good of another includes willing that they flourish, and to even begin to flourish, one must stop sinning. So, God's love...
For us to do something sinful has no effect on God's willing our good. To will the good of another includes willing that they flourish, and to even begin to flourish, one must stop sinning. So, God's love for us includes his willing us to embody the good in our own lives.
That may be confusing, so let's define evil. Evil has no existence. Evil is a privation; it is the lack of one or more essential goods. Evil, like darkness, is not a thing in and of itself, but instead, a lack of something that actually does exist: the goodness of God.
So to love another is to will that they not commit such sins, and willing that is to wish them to be, and be fully, instead of less, and possibly to deprive themselves of everything.
Forgiveness is an entirely different thing than love. It has preconditions (not the least of which is that one stop doing that for which one needs to be forgiven, obviously), a necessary disposition (to will the good, or, in other words, to seek forgiveness is to respond to love), and may require that one make some kind of amends (to heal or repair the privation that one is responsible for).
Whether or not the artist was being facetious or not I take no stance on, but taken literally the lyrics describe God and his relationship to us quite well.
@Grayscale Dude, I totally agree with you man. I'm really surprised to see how others are so narrow-minded. It's like they see the religious references and automatically assume things without thinking further than their noses.
@Grayscale Dude, I totally agree with you man. I'm really surprised to see how others are so narrow-minded. It's like they see the religious references and automatically assume things without thinking further than their noses.