Conversation 16

The zombie reference is metaphorical. He's afraid that he'll become a "zombie" in life.

The verses (and a lot of the album) describes these really mundane, everyday rituals of family life and moving on into middle age. The narrator is just going with the flow: doing what is expected of him, not disappointing anyone, reading the script of his movie, keeping his shitty thoughts to himself and only telling his wife about them after she's asleep. It's making him turn into a "zombie" though... he's becoming less enthused about life, he's unable to express himself, going through the motions, becoming a "confident liar," etc.

In the last verse he states all of the anti-zombie things he wants: to be romantic, to believe, to be safe, to continue loving his wife... but he's ultimately afraid he'll "eat her brains". He's afraid that the ritual of everyday life will strip him of his appealing aspects until he's unable to feel emotion (like a zombie) and cause him to do harm to the person he loves and wants the most (eat her brains).

Because he's evil.

Conversation 16 = everyday interaction has become so mundane that their conversations are made distinct by number as opposed to topic.

I was afraid, I'd eat your brains 'Cause I'm evil

The first line "the kids are in trouble" maybe a reference to the Who song "The Kids are Alright" -the writer "I know sometimes I must get out in the light. Better leave her behind with the kids; they're alright. The kids are alright".

The song, seems based on a version of The Wizard of Oz, with an alternative Dorothy's-quest-to-find-the-way-back-home, from this alternative Silver City instead of the Emerald City.

Using the constant sunny California warm weather as a stark contrast to growing up where you learn to try to anticipate the constant temperature changes of the season, daily, even hourly weather changes in Ohio.

Life in Hollywood, the silver city with silver starlets; where it maybe too mercurial, shape-shifting, slippery to ever see anyone's true form. Everything means everything can be the same as meaning nothing.

In contrast to growing up in the work-a-day Ohio life, where you give all your best to your job, then drag your tired, worn-out, whatever is left self to share with your family. Nothing left but sheer, honest, managing your best, against frustration with not enough time.

Maybe he has too much leisure, and their social life is too full for his comfort. Maybe spending too much idle time with friends makes him feel like he's acting in an episode of "Friends" where the tv series title theme song shows all the friends playing in fountain. The Fountain maybe a reference to the film character Melanie Daniels (played by Tippi Hedren) in The Birds, who as a young socialite was notorious for making headlines swimming in a fountain; indicative that she led an aimless, selfish life with too much money and too much privilege, and not enough soul-fulfilling, honest, hard work with life-enhancing, serious puzzles to work out in service for others.

In Wizard of Oz, Dorothy, with Toto nipping at her heels, is like the un-numbered fool card in a tarot deck; she wants to go home. The lion wants courage -he gets a medal. The tin man wants a heart, he gets a ticking clock. The scarecrow wants a brain, he gets a diploma.

The writer of this song wants a brain too, but because this is an alternative version of Oz he turns into a zombie. It's a playful game, when you love someone you tell them you love them so much you want to eat them. He loves his wife, his family, and his friends, he loves them so much he doesn't understand why he's still feeling unsatisfied.

Judging himself, in this alternate version of Oz, he sees himself as insatiable for having so much, yet still feeling unsatisfied, wanting more. So he imagines himself as a ravenous brain-eating zombie. Always consuming, but never full.

Relax writer. Maybe all you want is something harder. Something you're not good at, that forces you to learn, or even discover/invent something that has not been invented before. Something that will do your brain in, trying to figure it out.

Be inspired by "Akino Kimora's Miracle Apples" by Takuji Ishikawa, that Yoko Ono had translated into English. Figure out something that will make you feel proud of yourself to your future descendants. Yes, I think you've done enough, but apparently you are yearning for more.

Re. the title: Conversation 16 - no ideas, except the Fool card (Dorothy) has no number, but this song does. The number 16 -The Tower card in tarot. Something built on an unsteady foundation, that could be brought down to be built up again from a stronger foundation.

[Edit: added "Nothing left but sheer, honest, managing your best, against the frustration of not enough time." adds clarification to the following paragraph.]

Nice reading of the silver city/silver girls line. I didn't know quite what to make of it, but that makes sense to me.

what adds to this songs 'zombie' theme is the vocals. His voice lends to the mood so fucking well and takes it from being a beautifully written and executed song to a glimse into the mind and heart of a spirtually and emotionally drained man.

I think this song is about living in Hollywood and resenting that whole LA culture. The National are from Ohio and are genuine. They have outgrown the silver screen starlets and all the facades. They want to move away, raise their children outside of the bubble and live a normal life. They mention not worrying about the weather- a big reason people stay in California (eluding to moving back East where the winters can be brutal).

This isn't about literal zombies or cannibalism. Conversation 16 conveys how living in a place like LA can eat at your brains and destroy you. The singer is saying he's already jaded and evil. He doesn't want his wife or children to be that way, so they are breaking out!

This is one of my favorite songs from High Violet. I was so fortunate to see The National twice last year & was very impressed.

Does this song appear to be about zombies to anyone else?

Yeah Scott, I think you’re right. It’s a man commentating on the effects that his marriage and middle age are having on him. This could almost be ‘Slipping Husband’ from the husband’s perspective. The chorus confuses me though. It sounds as if he may be making reference to other men in his position — ‘We’ll leave the silver city’. The ‘silver city’ could be interpreted as the “perfect” lifestyle that the narrator’s tired of. Berninger, as always, is extremely self-deprecating although this song unusually contains some justification for his self-pity.

The symbolism of a ‘silver girl’ may be reference to his wife and thus, the wives of all men suffering from the dysfunction he describes. The fact that Berninger uses the colour silver may be homage to the bitter feelings he has towards the stereotype of a trophy wife.

He acknowledges his flaws; ‘I’ll try to be more romantic’ but ultimately blames this dysfunction on the trophy wives who aspire to mediocrity.

Toward the end of the song, the repetition of the line ‘I was afraid I’d eat your brains cos I’m evil’ suggests he left his spouse, returning to a self-deprecating persona because of guilt.

I think he very much wants to be in love but is too afraid to ruin things by being himself (a darker person) because he doesn't think she can handle it.

I love the lyric "Had my head in the oven so you'd know where I'll be." I think it means his brain will be fried - mindless, compliant and agreeable to the person she knows him to be.