@42 steps I've been wondering how on Earth the reference to actual death made sense in the context of sex, and I really like your interpretation. Especially given he's referenced the Osiris myth elsewhere, which really focuses on the life from death thing, and. Yes. Just yes. Thank you!
@42 steps I've been wondering how on Earth the reference to actual death made sense in the context of sex, and I really like your interpretation. Especially given he's referenced the Osiris myth elsewhere, which really focuses on the life from death thing, and. Yes. Just yes. Thank you!
@42 steps Oh, the deathless death bit I caught, it was just the line afterwards that had me squinting. But that sort of -- no -- it's definitely what's intended. That's all.
The Osiris thing is only really relevant here because his dismembered penis wound up being what produced the Nile with his semen, hence his dismemberment and death itself leading to life. Just another level, and not even really explicitly mentioned in this song, so ignore my obtuse link-making. It just helped confirm the interpretation for me by making one more click of, "Oh yeah, that is how he thinks,...
@42 steps Oh, the deathless death bit I caught, it was just the line afterwards that had me squinting. But that sort of -- no -- it's definitely what's intended. That's all.
The Osiris thing is only really relevant here because his dismembered penis wound up being what produced the Nile with his semen, hence his dismemberment and death itself leading to life. Just another level, and not even really explicitly mentioned in this song, so ignore my obtuse link-making. It just helped confirm the interpretation for me by making one more click of, "Oh yeah, that is how he thinks, brilliant."
Sorry for the rambles, I just get entirely too excited when things click. xD
@42 steps Oh, the whole sacrifice segment is clearly referencing paganism. It's a parallel to the church references. It's one of the things that points out that the song isn't the attack on the Church a lot of people like to hear it as, it's more of a criticism of organized religion throughout history and the positing of alternate, better objects of worship.
Among other things, but the song's big on nuances.
(And yes, I'd be willing to put money on the fact that knife rhyming was part of why the line's there. Guy's improved his writing already, even though everyone's obsessed...
@42 steps Oh, the whole sacrifice segment is clearly referencing paganism. It's a parallel to the church references. It's one of the things that points out that the song isn't the attack on the Church a lot of people like to hear it as, it's more of a criticism of organized religion throughout history and the positing of alternate, better objects of worship.
Among other things, but the song's big on nuances.
(And yes, I'd be willing to put money on the fact that knife rhyming was part of why the line's there. Guy's improved his writing already, even though everyone's obsessed with this song.)
@42 steps It doesn't make sense to me if the "church" in the chorus is also a metaphor. I mean, it doesn't make sense with the "altar of lies" and "sharpen your knife" part. Sharpening the knife must mean that the church is going to stab him in the back, right? It seems to me that the chorus is intended to be taken at face value, except for the ironic "let me give you my life", of course. After all, there are plenty of examples in the verses where he also references the acutal church, not just the metaphorical one....
@42 steps It doesn't make sense to me if the "church" in the chorus is also a metaphor. I mean, it doesn't make sense with the "altar of lies" and "sharpen your knife" part. Sharpening the knife must mean that the church is going to stab him in the back, right? It seems to me that the chorus is intended to be taken at face value, except for the ironic "let me give you my life", of course. After all, there are plenty of examples in the verses where he also references the acutal church, not just the metaphorical one.
"t doesn't make sense to me if the "church" in the chorus is also a metaphor. I mean, it doesn't make sense with the "altar of lies" and "sharpen your knife" part. "
"t doesn't make sense to me if the "church" in the chorus is also a metaphor. I mean, it doesn't make sense with the "altar of lies" and "sharpen your knife" part. "
Unless the "sharpen your knife" is an invitation, a sense that the person being sung to is capable of separating the singer from his sin, if only they will do so. Like cutting cancer from a body.
Unless the "sharpen your knife" is an invitation, a sense that the person being sung to is capable of separating the singer from his sin, if only they will do so. Like cutting cancer from a body.
The knife is more like a surgeon's knife than a killer's knife.
42 stepson May 19, 2015
The knife is more like a surgeon's knife than a killer's knife.
42 stepson May 19, 2015
I know in Southern (American) idiom that "lies" or "lying" refers to the practice of tale-telling. Fantastical story-telling. Yarns.
I know in Southern (American) idiom that "lies" or "lying" refers to the practice of tale-telling. Fantastical story-telling. Yarns.
It made sense to me that this might be traced back to the Scotch-Irish of Europe. That perhaps the term "lies" could be used for the same practice of story-telling...
It made sense to me that this might be traced back to the Scotch-Irish of Europe. That perhaps the term "lies" could be used for the same practice of story-telling...
I should never try linking here. My links never work out.
I should never try linking here. My links never work out.
I was referring to a book, <i>Storytelling on the Northern Irish Border: Characters and Community</i>, in which the practice of storytelling is associated with "artful lying" - "... measuring the gullibility of one's audience and providing entertainment through contests of wit...."
I was referring to a book, <i>Storytelling on the Northern Irish Border: Characters and Community</i>, in which the practice of storytelling is associated with "artful lying" - "... measuring the gullibility of one's audience and providing entertainment through contests of wit...."
One more thought - "let me worship at the shrine of your lies" could simply refer to the choice of the singer to exchange the lies of the "established church", for lies of his lover (his other "church"). He's saying he'll accept whatever things his lover wants to tell him, regardless of whether he can wholly believe in them.
One more thought - "let me worship at the shrine of your lies" could simply refer to the choice of the singer to exchange the lies of the "established church", for lies of his lover (his other "church"). He's saying he'll accept whatever things his lover wants to tell him, regardless of whether he can wholly believe in them.
Okay, I have to say I'm amused.
<i>Offer me that deathless death Good God, let me give you my life </i>
Offer me that deathless death (orgasm) Good God, let me give you my life (the male "stuff of life")
The "life" (or potential for it) that comes from this death.
How very... balanced.
I never thought about it that way before.
@42 steps yes! i had the same thought with "deathless death" :D
@42 steps yes! i had the same thought with "deathless death" :D
@42 steps I've been wondering how on Earth the reference to actual death made sense in the context of sex, and I really like your interpretation. Especially given he's referenced the Osiris myth elsewhere, which really focuses on the life from death thing, and. Yes. Just yes. Thank you!
@42 steps I've been wondering how on Earth the reference to actual death made sense in the context of sex, and I really like your interpretation. Especially given he's referenced the Osiris myth elsewhere, which really focuses on the life from death thing, and. Yes. Just yes. Thank you!
Yep. "Deathless death" as "le petite mort". :)
Yep. "Deathless death" as "le petite mort". :)
I'm kind of embarrassed to say I don't know the particulars of the Osiris myth offhand. But now you've given me something to go investigate.
I'm kind of embarrassed to say I don't know the particulars of the Osiris myth offhand. But now you've given me something to go investigate.
"My church offers no absolutes "
"My church offers no absolutes "
No absolutes, only absolution ;)
No absolutes, only absolution ;)
@42 steps Oh, the deathless death bit I caught, it was just the line afterwards that had me squinting. But that sort of -- no -- it's definitely what's intended. That's all. The Osiris thing is only really relevant here because his dismembered penis wound up being what produced the Nile with his semen, hence his dismemberment and death itself leading to life. Just another level, and not even really explicitly mentioned in this song, so ignore my obtuse link-making. It just helped confirm the interpretation for me by making one more click of, "Oh yeah, that is how he thinks,...
@42 steps Oh, the deathless death bit I caught, it was just the line afterwards that had me squinting. But that sort of -- no -- it's definitely what's intended. That's all. The Osiris thing is only really relevant here because his dismembered penis wound up being what produced the Nile with his semen, hence his dismemberment and death itself leading to life. Just another level, and not even really explicitly mentioned in this song, so ignore my obtuse link-making. It just helped confirm the interpretation for me by making one more click of, "Oh yeah, that is how he thinks, brilliant." Sorry for the rambles, I just get entirely too excited when things click. xD
Well, that might shed light on the "sharpen your knife" phrase that I had no explanation for (other than it rhymed).....
Well, that might shed light on the "sharpen your knife" phrase that I had no explanation for (other than it rhymed).....
@42 steps Oh, the whole sacrifice segment is clearly referencing paganism. It's a parallel to the church references. It's one of the things that points out that the song isn't the attack on the Church a lot of people like to hear it as, it's more of a criticism of organized religion throughout history and the positing of alternate, better objects of worship. Among other things, but the song's big on nuances. (And yes, I'd be willing to put money on the fact that knife rhyming was part of why the line's there. Guy's improved his writing already, even though everyone's obsessed...
@42 steps Oh, the whole sacrifice segment is clearly referencing paganism. It's a parallel to the church references. It's one of the things that points out that the song isn't the attack on the Church a lot of people like to hear it as, it's more of a criticism of organized religion throughout history and the positing of alternate, better objects of worship. Among other things, but the song's big on nuances.
(And yes, I'd be willing to put money on the fact that knife rhyming was part of why the line's there. Guy's improved his writing already, even though everyone's obsessed with this song.)
@42 steps It doesn't make sense to me if the "church" in the chorus is also a metaphor. I mean, it doesn't make sense with the "altar of lies" and "sharpen your knife" part. Sharpening the knife must mean that the church is going to stab him in the back, right? It seems to me that the chorus is intended to be taken at face value, except for the ironic "let me give you my life", of course. After all, there are plenty of examples in the verses where he also references the acutal church, not just the metaphorical one....
@42 steps It doesn't make sense to me if the "church" in the chorus is also a metaphor. I mean, it doesn't make sense with the "altar of lies" and "sharpen your knife" part. Sharpening the knife must mean that the church is going to stab him in the back, right? It seems to me that the chorus is intended to be taken at face value, except for the ironic "let me give you my life", of course. After all, there are plenty of examples in the verses where he also references the acutal church, not just the metaphorical one.
hahaha
hahaha
"t doesn't make sense to me if the "church" in the chorus is also a metaphor. I mean, it doesn't make sense with the "altar of lies" and "sharpen your knife" part. "
"t doesn't make sense to me if the "church" in the chorus is also a metaphor. I mean, it doesn't make sense with the "altar of lies" and "sharpen your knife" part. "
Unless the "sharpen your knife" is an invitation, a sense that the person being sung to is capable of separating the singer from his sin, if only they will do so. Like cutting cancer from a body.
Unless the "sharpen your knife" is an invitation, a sense that the person being sung to is capable of separating the singer from his sin, if only they will do so. Like cutting cancer from a body.
The knife is more like a surgeon's knife than a killer's knife. 42 stepson May 19, 2015
The knife is more like a surgeon's knife than a killer's knife. 42 stepson May 19, 2015
I know in Southern (American) idiom that "lies" or "lying" refers to the practice of tale-telling. Fantastical story-telling. Yarns.
I know in Southern (American) idiom that "lies" or "lying" refers to the practice of tale-telling. Fantastical story-telling. Yarns.
It made sense to me that this might be traced back to the Scotch-Irish of Europe. That perhaps the term "lies" could be used for the same practice of story-telling...
It made sense to me that this might be traced back to the Scotch-Irish of Europe. That perhaps the term "lies" could be used for the same practice of story-telling...
https://books.google.com/books?id=o6XKpdVt0VgC&pg=PT279&lpg=PT279&dq=irish,+lies+as+tall+tales&source=bl&ots=MYqSkDeEuI&sig=UmlgMqIB1CzZsGkIr8BCis8ByX8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAmoVChMI3cqmk4XixgIVwpyACh3ehQNJ#v=onepage&q=irish%2C%20lies%20as%20tall%20tales&f=false...
https://books.google.com/books?id=o6XKpdVt0VgC&pg=PT279&lpg=PT279&dq=irish,+lies+as+tall+tales&source=bl&ots=MYqSkDeEuI&sig=UmlgMqIB1CzZsGkIr8BCis8ByX8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAmoVChMI3cqmk4XixgIVwpyACh3ehQNJ#v=onepage&q=irish%2C%20lies%20as%20tall%20tales&f=false
I should never try linking here. My links never work out.
I should never try linking here. My links never work out.
I was referring to a book, <i>Storytelling on the Northern Irish Border: Characters and Community</i>, in which the practice of storytelling is associated with "artful lying" - "... measuring the gullibility of one's audience and providing entertainment through contests of wit...."
I was referring to a book, <i>Storytelling on the Northern Irish Border: Characters and Community</i>, in which the practice of storytelling is associated with "artful lying" - "... measuring the gullibility of one's audience and providing entertainment through contests of wit...."
One more thought - "let me worship at the shrine of your lies" could simply refer to the choice of the singer to exchange the lies of the "established church", for lies of his lover (his other "church"). He's saying he'll accept whatever things his lover wants to tell him, regardless of whether he can wholly believe in them.
One more thought - "let me worship at the shrine of your lies" could simply refer to the choice of the singer to exchange the lies of the "established church", for lies of his lover (his other "church"). He's saying he'll accept whatever things his lover wants to tell him, regardless of whether he can wholly believe in them.
@42 steps yeah, but "deathless death" really is just a term for it so the irony isn't really even there.
@42 steps yeah, but "deathless death" really is just a term for it so the irony isn't really even there.