So, Neil takes the "I hate Christians" route out. He doesn't just disagree with them. His anonymity here makes it too obvious. If it weren't for the line from the Bible, this could easily be seen as another 2112 (it really is, just with God, not the music industry being the "bad guy"). One thing I don't get: what on earth did any Christians ever do to Neil that he should lash out like this? I mean, did they hit him with a Bible or something? Neil has shown himself to be a very bitter man, which makes it difficult for me to appreciate their music the way I used to. In high school, they were my idols, people I connected with, because the Subdivisions song was very true to what I was dealing with. I'm an Orthodox Christian with relatively strict moral principles, so I didn't party or go to certain movies like my fellow classmates did. I only keep in touch with two from high school, really. I mean to say...Christians never did Neil Peart wrong! All we want to do is support Rush's music and then he slaps us in the face. What's up with that? Well, those are my thoughts on this song, and the album as a whole, given it's the theme of it. And, even though jimcornete sounds like he may just be a moron, he makes some good points.
I don't think he hates Christian - just the hypocrisy in the various movements that deviate from what Jesus in the New Testament actually teaches. A lot of Christian groups are quite legalistic and domineering, which is completely different than the early church in the bible. As I was saying in another part of this discussion, I can listen to these songs, just because I see a lot of what he says does apply to the false idols preached in various groups - even Christian ones, who present a completely different Jesus. Neil is...
I don't think he hates Christian - just the hypocrisy in the various movements that deviate from what Jesus in the New Testament actually teaches. A lot of Christian groups are quite legalistic and domineering, which is completely different than the early church in the bible. As I was saying in another part of this discussion, I can listen to these songs, just because I see a lot of what he says does apply to the false idols preached in various groups - even Christian ones, who present a completely different Jesus. Neil is on a search, and I do pray that Neil will come across genuine Christians who don't distort God's grace and love.
The reason Peart don't just disagree but (ironically )hates christians is because he is a morally cultivated, wise, person who has enough insight to experientially realize that christianity as a poetic religious tradition has certain toxic imagery asociated with it. Example: Crucfix = death = fear hell = damnation = pain jesus in the church market = anger = greed
also, christianity is spiritually associated with spirits that judge without a measure of mercy... for example, those who arrogantly loudly and proudly deny even mercy to the less fortunate.
The reason Peart don't just disagree but (ironically )hates christians is because he is a morally cultivated, wise, person who has enough insight to experientially realize that christianity as a poetic religious tradition has certain toxic imagery asociated with it. Example: Crucfix = death = fear hell = damnation = pain jesus in the church market = anger = greed
also, christianity is spiritually associated with spirits that judge without a measure of mercy... for example, those who arrogantly loudly and proudly deny even mercy to the less fortunate.
@immmmmG When we are morally cultivated and wise, we do not encourage hatred. People have the right to disagree with Christianity, but being critical and hateful I don't think is wisdom or nice. Does that mean I am a bad person because I am a Christian? Does that mean my religion is bad when it inspires me to love others, and try and be a little better each day? I'm far from being perfect, but I disagree with you. I'm trying to understand and respect others. I'm trying to change the wrongs I do, and I am striving to...
@immmmmG When we are morally cultivated and wise, we do not encourage hatred. People have the right to disagree with Christianity, but being critical and hateful I don't think is wisdom or nice. Does that mean I am a bad person because I am a Christian? Does that mean my religion is bad when it inspires me to love others, and try and be a little better each day? I'm far from being perfect, but I disagree with you. I'm trying to understand and respect others. I'm trying to change the wrongs I do, and I am striving to be a better person. So how does that make me a bad person?
@jimmmmmG: Actually, if he were morally cultivated and wise and all (he does display a lot of that in earlier albums for sure), then he wouldn't be hating on Christians. So, that doesn't work. Now, as for his and I'm guessing your perception of Christianity, it is completely in denial of what it is. A part of Christianity's "function" I guess you could say, is about denying one's self of the worldly things for Godly things: virtue over vice, propriety over vulgarity, etc. etc. to name a couple. Christianity has restrictions in place (well, Orthodoxy does; can't speak for the...
@jimmmmmG: Actually, if he were morally cultivated and wise and all (he does display a lot of that in earlier albums for sure), then he wouldn't be hating on Christians. So, that doesn't work. Now, as for his and I'm guessing your perception of Christianity, it is completely in denial of what it is. A part of Christianity's "function" I guess you could say, is about denying one's self of the worldly things for Godly things: virtue over vice, propriety over vulgarity, etc. etc. to name a couple. Christianity has restrictions in place (well, Orthodoxy does; can't speak for the other denominations and they seem not to have as much restrictions) to keep us from our own self destruction. Speaking to the part of judging without a measure of mercy...that is very much a lack of perspective on the different churches. Sure, some, for example, Fundamentalists, whom I call Fundees, believe (tend to) that they can tell who's going to Heaven or Hell because they are "saved." I have a friend who thinks that I'm on the wrong road because I listen to metal (and none of it has to do with Satanism and stuff, except one song which features it, but as something to be feared; it's used as an instrument to make the story scary in the song; the main character of the song is frightened by Satanists and the stuff). There, I get you, but that doesn't speak for everybody. The Orthodox Church, for example, does not believe you can tell who's going where. That's for God to decide. We do not think "Oh he's going to Hell" or whatever because we don't know. However poorly a person lives their life, we can never tell; we're only human.
@Findoli I found a slight turn in Peart's lyrics after the 1997 loss of his (then) only child, a 19 year old daughter in a car crash. Piling on that tragedy - his common-law wife of some 20 years, the mother of the daughter who died, succumbed to cancer just 10 months after the crash. I think Peart was a pretty solid atheist before these personal tragedies, but 'god's treatment of innocents' is often a turning point in lives affected by tragedy. I'm atheist. I do not hate Christians, but I do resist some of their attempts to insert god...
@Findoli I found a slight turn in Peart's lyrics after the 1997 loss of his (then) only child, a 19 year old daughter in a car crash. Piling on that tragedy - his common-law wife of some 20 years, the mother of the daughter who died, succumbed to cancer just 10 months after the crash. I think Peart was a pretty solid atheist before these personal tragedies, but 'god's treatment of innocents' is often a turning point in lives affected by tragedy. I'm atheist. I do not hate Christians, but I do resist some of their attempts to insert god into policy decisions by our government. Get real. "In Reason We Trust"
So, Neil takes the "I hate Christians" route out. He doesn't just disagree with them. His anonymity here makes it too obvious. If it weren't for the line from the Bible, this could easily be seen as another 2112 (it really is, just with God, not the music industry being the "bad guy"). One thing I don't get: what on earth did any Christians ever do to Neil that he should lash out like this? I mean, did they hit him with a Bible or something? Neil has shown himself to be a very bitter man, which makes it difficult for me to appreciate their music the way I used to. In high school, they were my idols, people I connected with, because the Subdivisions song was very true to what I was dealing with. I'm an Orthodox Christian with relatively strict moral principles, so I didn't party or go to certain movies like my fellow classmates did. I only keep in touch with two from high school, really. I mean to say...Christians never did Neil Peart wrong! All we want to do is support Rush's music and then he slaps us in the face. What's up with that? Well, those are my thoughts on this song, and the album as a whole, given it's the theme of it. And, even though jimcornete sounds like he may just be a moron, he makes some good points.
I don't think he hates Christian - just the hypocrisy in the various movements that deviate from what Jesus in the New Testament actually teaches. A lot of Christian groups are quite legalistic and domineering, which is completely different than the early church in the bible. As I was saying in another part of this discussion, I can listen to these songs, just because I see a lot of what he says does apply to the false idols preached in various groups - even Christian ones, who present a completely different Jesus. Neil is...
I don't think he hates Christian - just the hypocrisy in the various movements that deviate from what Jesus in the New Testament actually teaches. A lot of Christian groups are quite legalistic and domineering, which is completely different than the early church in the bible. As I was saying in another part of this discussion, I can listen to these songs, just because I see a lot of what he says does apply to the false idols preached in various groups - even Christian ones, who present a completely different Jesus. Neil is on a search, and I do pray that Neil will come across genuine Christians who don't distort God's grace and love.
The reason Peart don't just disagree but (ironically )hates christians is because he is a morally cultivated, wise, person who has enough insight to experientially realize that christianity as a poetic religious tradition has certain toxic imagery asociated with it. Example: Crucfix = death = fear hell = damnation = pain jesus in the church market = anger = greed also, christianity is spiritually associated with spirits that judge without a measure of mercy... for example, those who arrogantly loudly and proudly deny even mercy to the less fortunate.
The reason Peart don't just disagree but (ironically )hates christians is because he is a morally cultivated, wise, person who has enough insight to experientially realize that christianity as a poetic religious tradition has certain toxic imagery asociated with it. Example: Crucfix = death = fear hell = damnation = pain jesus in the church market = anger = greed also, christianity is spiritually associated with spirits that judge without a measure of mercy... for example, those who arrogantly loudly and proudly deny even mercy to the less fortunate.
@immmmmG When we are morally cultivated and wise, we do not encourage hatred. People have the right to disagree with Christianity, but being critical and hateful I don't think is wisdom or nice. Does that mean I am a bad person because I am a Christian? Does that mean my religion is bad when it inspires me to love others, and try and be a little better each day? I'm far from being perfect, but I disagree with you. I'm trying to understand and respect others. I'm trying to change the wrongs I do, and I am striving to...
@immmmmG When we are morally cultivated and wise, we do not encourage hatred. People have the right to disagree with Christianity, but being critical and hateful I don't think is wisdom or nice. Does that mean I am a bad person because I am a Christian? Does that mean my religion is bad when it inspires me to love others, and try and be a little better each day? I'm far from being perfect, but I disagree with you. I'm trying to understand and respect others. I'm trying to change the wrongs I do, and I am striving to be a better person. So how does that make me a bad person?
@jimmmmmG: Actually, if he were morally cultivated and wise and all (he does display a lot of that in earlier albums for sure), then he wouldn't be hating on Christians. So, that doesn't work. Now, as for his and I'm guessing your perception of Christianity, it is completely in denial of what it is. A part of Christianity's "function" I guess you could say, is about denying one's self of the worldly things for Godly things: virtue over vice, propriety over vulgarity, etc. etc. to name a couple. Christianity has restrictions in place (well, Orthodoxy does; can't speak for the...
@jimmmmmG: Actually, if he were morally cultivated and wise and all (he does display a lot of that in earlier albums for sure), then he wouldn't be hating on Christians. So, that doesn't work. Now, as for his and I'm guessing your perception of Christianity, it is completely in denial of what it is. A part of Christianity's "function" I guess you could say, is about denying one's self of the worldly things for Godly things: virtue over vice, propriety over vulgarity, etc. etc. to name a couple. Christianity has restrictions in place (well, Orthodoxy does; can't speak for the other denominations and they seem not to have as much restrictions) to keep us from our own self destruction. Speaking to the part of judging without a measure of mercy...that is very much a lack of perspective on the different churches. Sure, some, for example, Fundamentalists, whom I call Fundees, believe (tend to) that they can tell who's going to Heaven or Hell because they are "saved." I have a friend who thinks that I'm on the wrong road because I listen to metal (and none of it has to do with Satanism and stuff, except one song which features it, but as something to be feared; it's used as an instrument to make the story scary in the song; the main character of the song is frightened by Satanists and the stuff). There, I get you, but that doesn't speak for everybody. The Orthodox Church, for example, does not believe you can tell who's going where. That's for God to decide. We do not think "Oh he's going to Hell" or whatever because we don't know. However poorly a person lives their life, we can never tell; we're only human.
@Findoli I found a slight turn in Peart's lyrics after the 1997 loss of his (then) only child, a 19 year old daughter in a car crash. Piling on that tragedy - his common-law wife of some 20 years, the mother of the daughter who died, succumbed to cancer just 10 months after the crash. I think Peart was a pretty solid atheist before these personal tragedies, but 'god's treatment of innocents' is often a turning point in lives affected by tragedy. I'm atheist. I do not hate Christians, but I do resist some of their attempts to insert god...
@Findoli I found a slight turn in Peart's lyrics after the 1997 loss of his (then) only child, a 19 year old daughter in a car crash. Piling on that tragedy - his common-law wife of some 20 years, the mother of the daughter who died, succumbed to cancer just 10 months after the crash. I think Peart was a pretty solid atheist before these personal tragedies, but 'god's treatment of innocents' is often a turning point in lives affected by tragedy. I'm atheist. I do not hate Christians, but I do resist some of their attempts to insert god into policy decisions by our government. Get real. "In Reason We Trust"