I honestly believe this song IS about Courtney Love. Every word and every meaning. When Tori sings starfucker shes referring to Courtney Love. Love wanted to do whatever it took to get famous. Sleep with rock stars etc. She tried to sleep with Billy Corgan only for his fame. She met Kurt and knew she hit the big times.
The selling his baby part is referring to Courtney Love's father. He has made a career out of writing books about Courtney and Kurt. Neither of them get along. Love's father was once the music manager of the grateful dead. Her father is obsessed with fame too.
Totally agree with the drug reference at the end. Heroin was their drug although Courtney preferred coke and Kurt preferred Heroin to soothe is stomach issues.
The Peace and Love at the end really puts the cherry on the ice cream. Courtney got the Love from peace and love to create her stage name. She said so herself. She wanted to identify with the hippy culture she grew up in.
'she tried to sleep with billy corgan'? omg they had a relationship and for your info by billy's own words he and courtney are 'to these days great friends, a relationship that has survived through the years while so many others havent'.
'she tried to sleep with billy corgan'? omg they had a relationship and for your info by billy's own words he and courtney are 'to these days great friends, a relationship that has survived through the years while so many others havent'.
i like people always trying to dismiss courtney's music and her own right success, and seeing her only for her need for fame. the woman has written one of the best song ever years after cobains death, and despite her wanting to be so famous as so many clearly think,she decided against giving it up in a soundtrack...
i like people always trying to dismiss courtney's music and her own right success, and seeing her only for her need for fame. the woman has written one of the best song ever years after cobains death, and despite her wanting to be so famous as so many clearly think,she decided against giving it up in a soundtrack for a movie(marilyn manson accepted instead) which would have definitely given her loads of publicity,fame and money. but im sure that you don't even know what song i am talking about.
to me this song is about men receiving more attention, fame, and consideration than women that are equally if not more talented than them.
and the world/press seeing these women as leechers or simply gold diggers, while in reality is actually 'daddy selling his baby'...
Before they had a relationship, and before she dated Cobain, Courtney Love was trying to date Corgan. He wouldn't give her the time of day so she went with Kurt. You canhear Courtney discuss this in the VH1 Behind the Music interview.
Before they had a relationship, and before she dated Cobain, Courtney Love was trying to date Corgan. He wouldn't give her the time of day so she went with Kurt. You canhear Courtney discuss this in the VH1 Behind the Music interview.
She was having an affair with Corgan when they were in Europe and the week after Kurt was found dead, she was with him in Arizona at a resort.
She was having an affair with Corgan when they were in Europe and the week after Kurt was found dead, she was with him in Arizona at a resort.
Corgan went off on a rant about Courtney and her fake, fame whoring self on twitter last year. He wrote music for her latest album and told her he...
Corgan went off on a rant about Courtney and her fake, fame whoring self on twitter last year. He wrote music for her latest album and told her he would sue if she released the album which she did. They hate eachother now.
This song is most probably about Courtney and her involvement with Kurt Cobain's death.
"Let's put it this way... Courtney and I have never spoken. We've never spoken about it and I think it's best kept that way. We have mutual friends. I don;t want to put them in a bad position." - Tori Amos 1996 B Side Magizine re:this song.
Life is more complicated than anything set out in the few paragraphs of a rock biography or the columns of a gossip rag. No-one does or says anything because of one thing in particular, no-one feels just one thing when doing anything or behaving a certain way. People are contradictory and conflicted as hell. There are two, three and more sides to every story and deeper levels to things that neither you romantic feminists or cold blooded little misogynists can dream up in your tiny minds.
Life is more complicated than anything set out in the few paragraphs of a rock biography or the columns of a gossip rag. No-one does or says anything because of one thing in particular, no-one feels just one thing when doing anything or behaving a certain way. People are contradictory and conflicted as hell. There are two, three and more sides to every story and deeper levels to things that neither you romantic feminists or cold blooded little misogynists can dream up in your tiny minds.
Yes Courtney...
Yes Courtney fucks successful people and doesn't fuck gas station attendants, DUH - why the fuck would she? She has a high taste standard in men, and finds success attractive. Women are not like men. Tits and a good ass are not enough. They tend to be into men more for what they do. Gold diggers and star fuckers and whores?
Well, um, what you you prefer instead - that women only choose to fuck the losers and wasters? And see humanity degenerate back to the stone age in a couple of generations? It might leave a bad taste in your bitter, women hating little doll mouth but the whole reason you have technology to vent it through and agriculture and art and a car and a fucking vacuum cleaner is because women fucked the winners. OK? This is how evolution works my dear.
Don't like it? OK, go fuck that nice, honest, down to earth, unpretentious cash clerk at the local K-Mart and have nice retarded babies.
No-one will call YOU a gold digger, rest assured.
And do you think that's the end of the story; that these lionesses pick some poor, hapless genius, and henpecks him to death while spending all his money?
You obviously have difficulty understanding the nature of relationships between complex, successful people, and the how sacrifices and gains that are made on both sides. Complicated, subtle ones that your simple, cartoon world mind is too dumb to see the nuances of.
What do Kurt, Billy and Trent all have in common? Take a guess: genius? money? fame? WEAKNESS......?
Neither of the three could fight for shit. Or defend themselves against hecklers in public, industry ogres who love exploiting arty boys, and the jock boys who wanted to fight them in school. They were all bullied mercilessly as teenagers. What do you think Courtney did when the famous men she was dating were attacked or threatened? Ask for the credit card and run away? Courtney BEAT THE SHIT out of anyone who came near Kurt who meant him or the family harm. Routinely, so many times in fact that she had her arm in a cast by 1994. From all the bastards and bitches she had to punch on Kurt's behalf.
Every smart ass who'd pretend to cry when they saw Kurt, mocking him with some wise crack about his effeminacy had to be fought off by CL. Either with a cussing retort back or a wallop in the face because Kurt could not and would not do this for himself, cowering behind her.
Courtney won every fight she ever fought, everyone was scared of her.
Do you not think Kurt found this attractive and useful for him? No?
CL was Kurt's big, bad body guard and if you don't think this made his pussy wet when he hid behind her back as she fought monsters for him then you are very naive about how relationships work between sensitive, artistic men and the big shouldered, loud mouthed Jewesses they marry.
Wake up.
Yes Courtney was a gold digging whore and gold digging whores know a lot about business and money. What do you think Kurt knew about business and money? So much that Courtney had to intervene every time Geffen tried to screw her family out of Kurt's money, contractually force him into co-operating with things that repulsed him, kept knowledge away from him and do things behind his back. The amount of times CL had to march into offices and scream blue murder at business suited executives who basically hated the artists they worked for. Republican Golfers who have reduced nearly all our favourite successful recording artists to destitution through bad contracts and exploitation of their naivety. Look into the history of this. Naivety gets artists screwed every time. Kurt was naive about business and money.
Courtney was not.
Do you not think Kurt was happy to use this to his advantage and stay at home in his pyjamas feeding Frances while Courtney went and demanded money for furniture and nappies because it had gotten that bad and Kurt would do nothing about it? Think again.
Yes CL wanted a nice house, and nice things for herself, and for the future of THEIR daughter, and Kurt himself, and his parents, and their friends. Gold digging whores tend to understand how every one benefits from wealth. Kurt would have been happy to live off macaroni cheese forever. Although he soon changed his mind. It was KURT who demanded a higher royalty for Nirvana record sales. Oh yes, the down to earth angel who wouldn't hurt a fly.
Consider also, the life that Kurt had led until he met CL. Sheltered in a small logging town in the middle of bumfuck, geographical experience limited to a 300 mile radius, had never even met an actor let alone been on a film set, nor had seen the world, seen the inside of a correction facility or a brothel, or an expensive hotel or a Hollywood party. By the time he was 25 Kurt hadn't really had anything that much happen to him in his life in his life worthy of talking about.
Then he meets CL who had been in two films, knew directors, actors, agents, hookers, managers, scenesters, writers and had traveled the world, lived in 5 continents and lived through everything; from hippy parents to punk scenes in Liverpool, from dead Japanese junkie whores and Oregon prison cells to Irish university halls and Hollywood film sets. Cl had done just about everything and had been everywhere.
Courtney had an experience education and a clinically tested IQ Kurt would have died for. He failed math repeatedly.
Most of the lyrics for In Utero were from Courtney's old diaries. Buy Dirty Blonde and see them for yourself, not to mention the vocal snarl and vowel sneering he picked up from her.
"I love you for what I am not" He sang on the album; "Bi-polar opposites attract"
And you think it was only Courtney who used Kurt as a meal ticket to bigger and better things?
Silly girl.
And if you think Kurt wasn't interested in Hollywood or fame and networking also think again. You are so naive its mind boggling.
Yes she had affairs, you think Kurt didn't fuck around? He got a blow job off Mary Lou Lord did he not? You think he didn't fuck a groupie or two. And how exactly do you know that CL had an affair with Billy the week after the death? Yeah they met up, they were friends for years, she had just lost her husband, and? Were you there? How the fuck do you know what they actually did. Probably cry a lot.
Or fuck even yes - who knows? You're kind of crazy when someone close to you dies. Did you know that? You'll do anything for a moments comfort.
Anything.
Maybe she fucked him twice. Who the fuck even cares?
Kurt was so far into heroin addiction by 94 he dropped Frances on her fucking head.
Yeah, great daddy.
Would you blame her for having a roving eye at this point anyway? Kurt was useless: couldn't even get up most times, then disappearing for days on end to shoot smack with friends, prowling round the house in a hunting cap and gun, slowly losing his mind and sanity. The intervention didn't work. Pleading with him with Frances in her arms didn't work. Why the fuck SHOULD Courtney have stuck around to subject herself and Frances to that crap that Kurt wouldn't make himself stop, not even for the sake of their child? And then what does Kurt do when he gets wind of her trying to escape?
Suicide threats are probably the most manipulative thing you can ever do to trap anyone "You leave me I'll kill myself" Don't we normally hate women for this kind of thoughtless emotional blackmail? And he tried twice! His note said it all. "You divorce me I'll make you pay" was basically the message CL got after the Rome incident with the Rohypnol.
And make her pay he did. Her life was basically RUINED from the backlash and Yoko hysteria she had to deal with for years after and she would face being America's most hated bitch forever.
Well done Kurt. Mission accomplished.
But then Courtney wasn't really innocent either was she? She controlled every aspect of their lives to the point where Kurt was even scared of her. She lied about everything, she was self obsessed and egotistical. Subjecting Kurt to bragging about everything she was that he wasn't and enjoying these personal, psychological victories to compensate for the artistic achievement competition that she was doomed to lose.
She had other men in her life who came first, who knew Courtney better and had put in more time with her and Kurt had to live with the threat of these men all the time knowing that he measured up in some ways, and came short in others. I'm sure Courtney used this self consciousness to her advantage ruthlessly.
Love brings out the best and the worst of everyone. You should know this by now.
And I'm she Kurt used Courtney's self loathing against her too. Wasn't he always bragging about how cool this or that women artist was was, keeping pictures and photos of Women around the house that he liked, maybe better than Courtney?
He threw a rock through the window of a female conceptual artist he admired, asking to meet. Who knows what he did with the women who could paint, and play their instruments really well and do things that CL couldn't? One called Jennifer in particular? Photo cut outs of which Courtney found in a box, by his bed.
Hmmm.
There is no need even bringing Trent up as he was nothing more than an ill advised comfort fuck after Kurt for CL. One that she regrets only in the way you can when you fuck a tiny cocked, little weasel of a man who is shit in bed. Who was probably attracted to Courtney over Tori because Courtney's balls are way bigger than Tori's. And we all know Trent hasn't got any balls period. There we are. Simplified for you.
I know you like things nice and simple.
And CL and Billy C have been fighting, fucking and making up for years. They're mad at each other now. They'll make up in a few years and then fight again.
Relationships are complicated. Stop simplifying everything into goodies and baddies.
Your limited understanding of relationship dynamics is born mostly out a need to make reality simplify itself to fit your prejudices. Prejudices against women who are more powerful and superior to you I suspect. Poor you.
I honestly believe this song IS about Courtney Love. Every word and every meaning. When Tori sings starfucker shes referring to Courtney Love. Love wanted to do whatever it took to get famous. Sleep with rock stars etc. She tried to sleep with Billy Corgan only for his fame. She met Kurt and knew she hit the big times.
The selling his baby part is referring to Courtney Love's father. He has made a career out of writing books about Courtney and Kurt. Neither of them get along. Love's father was once the music manager of the grateful dead. Her father is obsessed with fame too.
Totally agree with the drug reference at the end. Heroin was their drug although Courtney preferred coke and Kurt preferred Heroin to soothe is stomach issues.
The Peace and Love at the end really puts the cherry on the ice cream. Courtney got the Love from peace and love to create her stage name. She said so herself. She wanted to identify with the hippy culture she grew up in.
'she tried to sleep with billy corgan'? omg they had a relationship and for your info by billy's own words he and courtney are 'to these days great friends, a relationship that has survived through the years while so many others havent'.
'she tried to sleep with billy corgan'? omg they had a relationship and for your info by billy's own words he and courtney are 'to these days great friends, a relationship that has survived through the years while so many others havent'.
i like people always trying to dismiss courtney's music and her own right success, and seeing her only for her need for fame. the woman has written one of the best song ever years after cobains death, and despite her wanting to be so famous as so many clearly think,she decided against giving it up in a soundtrack...
i like people always trying to dismiss courtney's music and her own right success, and seeing her only for her need for fame. the woman has written one of the best song ever years after cobains death, and despite her wanting to be so famous as so many clearly think,she decided against giving it up in a soundtrack for a movie(marilyn manson accepted instead) which would have definitely given her loads of publicity,fame and money. but im sure that you don't even know what song i am talking about.
to me this song is about men receiving more attention, fame, and consideration than women that are equally if not more talented than them. and the world/press seeing these women as leechers or simply gold diggers, while in reality is actually 'daddy selling his baby'...
Before they had a relationship, and before she dated Cobain, Courtney Love was trying to date Corgan. He wouldn't give her the time of day so she went with Kurt. You canhear Courtney discuss this in the VH1 Behind the Music interview.
Before they had a relationship, and before she dated Cobain, Courtney Love was trying to date Corgan. He wouldn't give her the time of day so she went with Kurt. You canhear Courtney discuss this in the VH1 Behind the Music interview.
She was having an affair with Corgan when they were in Europe and the week after Kurt was found dead, she was with him in Arizona at a resort.
She was having an affair with Corgan when they were in Europe and the week after Kurt was found dead, she was with him in Arizona at a resort.
Corgan went off on a rant about Courtney and her fake, fame whoring self on twitter last year. He wrote music for her latest album and told her he...
Corgan went off on a rant about Courtney and her fake, fame whoring self on twitter last year. He wrote music for her latest album and told her he would sue if she released the album which she did. They hate eachother now.
This song is most probably about Courtney and her involvement with Kurt Cobain's death.
"Let's put it this way... Courtney and I have never spoken. We've never spoken about it and I think it's best kept that way. We have mutual friends. I don;t want to put them in a bad position." - Tori Amos 1996 B Side Magizine re:this song.
You're wrong.
Actually, neither of you two have a clue.
Actually, neither of you two have a clue.
But you especially, Janebb9
But you especially, Janebb9
Life is more complicated than anything set out in the few paragraphs of a rock biography or the columns of a gossip rag. No-one does or says anything because of one thing in particular, no-one feels just one thing when doing anything or behaving a certain way. People are contradictory and conflicted as hell. There are two, three and more sides to every story and deeper levels to things that neither you romantic feminists or cold blooded little misogynists can dream up in your tiny minds.
Life is more complicated than anything set out in the few paragraphs of a rock biography or the columns of a gossip rag. No-one does or says anything because of one thing in particular, no-one feels just one thing when doing anything or behaving a certain way. People are contradictory and conflicted as hell. There are two, three and more sides to every story and deeper levels to things that neither you romantic feminists or cold blooded little misogynists can dream up in your tiny minds.
Yes Courtney...
Yes Courtney fucks successful people and doesn't fuck gas station attendants, DUH - why the fuck would she? She has a high taste standard in men, and finds success attractive. Women are not like men. Tits and a good ass are not enough. They tend to be into men more for what they do. Gold diggers and star fuckers and whores? Well, um, what you you prefer instead - that women only choose to fuck the losers and wasters? And see humanity degenerate back to the stone age in a couple of generations? It might leave a bad taste in your bitter, women hating little doll mouth but the whole reason you have technology to vent it through and agriculture and art and a car and a fucking vacuum cleaner is because women fucked the winners. OK? This is how evolution works my dear.
Don't like it? OK, go fuck that nice, honest, down to earth, unpretentious cash clerk at the local K-Mart and have nice retarded babies. No-one will call YOU a gold digger, rest assured.
And do you think that's the end of the story; that these lionesses pick some poor, hapless genius, and henpecks him to death while spending all his money? You obviously have difficulty understanding the nature of relationships between complex, successful people, and the how sacrifices and gains that are made on both sides. Complicated, subtle ones that your simple, cartoon world mind is too dumb to see the nuances of.
What do Kurt, Billy and Trent all have in common? Take a guess: genius? money? fame? WEAKNESS......? Neither of the three could fight for shit. Or defend themselves against hecklers in public, industry ogres who love exploiting arty boys, and the jock boys who wanted to fight them in school. They were all bullied mercilessly as teenagers. What do you think Courtney did when the famous men she was dating were attacked or threatened? Ask for the credit card and run away? Courtney BEAT THE SHIT out of anyone who came near Kurt who meant him or the family harm. Routinely, so many times in fact that she had her arm in a cast by 1994. From all the bastards and bitches she had to punch on Kurt's behalf. Every smart ass who'd pretend to cry when they saw Kurt, mocking him with some wise crack about his effeminacy had to be fought off by CL. Either with a cussing retort back or a wallop in the face because Kurt could not and would not do this for himself, cowering behind her. Courtney won every fight she ever fought, everyone was scared of her. Do you not think Kurt found this attractive and useful for him? No? CL was Kurt's big, bad body guard and if you don't think this made his pussy wet when he hid behind her back as she fought monsters for him then you are very naive about how relationships work between sensitive, artistic men and the big shouldered, loud mouthed Jewesses they marry. Wake up.
Yes Courtney was a gold digging whore and gold digging whores know a lot about business and money. What do you think Kurt knew about business and money? So much that Courtney had to intervene every time Geffen tried to screw her family out of Kurt's money, contractually force him into co-operating with things that repulsed him, kept knowledge away from him and do things behind his back. The amount of times CL had to march into offices and scream blue murder at business suited executives who basically hated the artists they worked for. Republican Golfers who have reduced nearly all our favourite successful recording artists to destitution through bad contracts and exploitation of their naivety. Look into the history of this. Naivety gets artists screwed every time. Kurt was naive about business and money. Courtney was not.
Do you not think Kurt was happy to use this to his advantage and stay at home in his pyjamas feeding Frances while Courtney went and demanded money for furniture and nappies because it had gotten that bad and Kurt would do nothing about it? Think again. Yes CL wanted a nice house, and nice things for herself, and for the future of THEIR daughter, and Kurt himself, and his parents, and their friends. Gold digging whores tend to understand how every one benefits from wealth. Kurt would have been happy to live off macaroni cheese forever. Although he soon changed his mind. It was KURT who demanded a higher royalty for Nirvana record sales. Oh yes, the down to earth angel who wouldn't hurt a fly. Consider also, the life that Kurt had led until he met CL. Sheltered in a small logging town in the middle of bumfuck, geographical experience limited to a 300 mile radius, had never even met an actor let alone been on a film set, nor had seen the world, seen the inside of a correction facility or a brothel, or an expensive hotel or a Hollywood party. By the time he was 25 Kurt hadn't really had anything that much happen to him in his life in his life worthy of talking about. Then he meets CL who had been in two films, knew directors, actors, agents, hookers, managers, scenesters, writers and had traveled the world, lived in 5 continents and lived through everything; from hippy parents to punk scenes in Liverpool, from dead Japanese junkie whores and Oregon prison cells to Irish university halls and Hollywood film sets. Cl had done just about everything and had been everywhere. Courtney had an experience education and a clinically tested IQ Kurt would have died for. He failed math repeatedly. Most of the lyrics for In Utero were from Courtney's old diaries. Buy Dirty Blonde and see them for yourself, not to mention the vocal snarl and vowel sneering he picked up from her. "I love you for what I am not" He sang on the album; "Bi-polar opposites attract" And you think it was only Courtney who used Kurt as a meal ticket to bigger and better things? Silly girl. And if you think Kurt wasn't interested in Hollywood or fame and networking also think again. You are so naive its mind boggling.
Yes she had affairs, you think Kurt didn't fuck around? He got a blow job off Mary Lou Lord did he not? You think he didn't fuck a groupie or two. And how exactly do you know that CL had an affair with Billy the week after the death? Yeah they met up, they were friends for years, she had just lost her husband, and? Were you there? How the fuck do you know what they actually did. Probably cry a lot. Or fuck even yes - who knows? You're kind of crazy when someone close to you dies. Did you know that? You'll do anything for a moments comfort. Anything. Maybe she fucked him twice. Who the fuck even cares? Kurt was so far into heroin addiction by 94 he dropped Frances on her fucking head. Yeah, great daddy. Would you blame her for having a roving eye at this point anyway? Kurt was useless: couldn't even get up most times, then disappearing for days on end to shoot smack with friends, prowling round the house in a hunting cap and gun, slowly losing his mind and sanity. The intervention didn't work. Pleading with him with Frances in her arms didn't work. Why the fuck SHOULD Courtney have stuck around to subject herself and Frances to that crap that Kurt wouldn't make himself stop, not even for the sake of their child? And then what does Kurt do when he gets wind of her trying to escape?
Suicide threats are probably the most manipulative thing you can ever do to trap anyone "You leave me I'll kill myself" Don't we normally hate women for this kind of thoughtless emotional blackmail? And he tried twice! His note said it all. "You divorce me I'll make you pay" was basically the message CL got after the Rome incident with the Rohypnol. And make her pay he did. Her life was basically RUINED from the backlash and Yoko hysteria she had to deal with for years after and she would face being America's most hated bitch forever. Well done Kurt. Mission accomplished.
But then Courtney wasn't really innocent either was she? She controlled every aspect of their lives to the point where Kurt was even scared of her. She lied about everything, she was self obsessed and egotistical. Subjecting Kurt to bragging about everything she was that he wasn't and enjoying these personal, psychological victories to compensate for the artistic achievement competition that she was doomed to lose. She had other men in her life who came first, who knew Courtney better and had put in more time with her and Kurt had to live with the threat of these men all the time knowing that he measured up in some ways, and came short in others. I'm sure Courtney used this self consciousness to her advantage ruthlessly. Love brings out the best and the worst of everyone. You should know this by now.
And I'm she Kurt used Courtney's self loathing against her too. Wasn't he always bragging about how cool this or that women artist was was, keeping pictures and photos of Women around the house that he liked, maybe better than Courtney? He threw a rock through the window of a female conceptual artist he admired, asking to meet. Who knows what he did with the women who could paint, and play their instruments really well and do things that CL couldn't? One called Jennifer in particular? Photo cut outs of which Courtney found in a box, by his bed. Hmmm.
There is no need even bringing Trent up as he was nothing more than an ill advised comfort fuck after Kurt for CL. One that she regrets only in the way you can when you fuck a tiny cocked, little weasel of a man who is shit in bed. Who was probably attracted to Courtney over Tori because Courtney's balls are way bigger than Tori's. And we all know Trent hasn't got any balls period. There we are. Simplified for you. I know you like things nice and simple. And CL and Billy C have been fighting, fucking and making up for years. They're mad at each other now. They'll make up in a few years and then fight again.
Relationships are complicated. Stop simplifying everything into goodies and baddies. Your limited understanding of relationship dynamics is born mostly out a need to make reality simplify itself to fit your prejudices. Prejudices against women who are more powerful and superior to you I suspect. Poor you.
@malefica hi Courtney!
@malefica hi Courtney!
@Jae26 Yeah I was right. The song is about Courtney Love.
@Jae26 Yeah I was right. The song is about Courtney Love.