Cursed "forever"? Well, that was a bit strong. Stevie does hold out for Lindsey a thin thread of hope: "When the rain washes you clean, you'll know." She wrote "when" not "if".
However I've heard this song described as being generous to Buckingham, in contrast to "Go Your Own Way" being scathing towards Nicks. If I emphasized the critical aspects of the lyrics of "Dreams" it's because (I think) they've been minimized or ignored.
Conversely: when Stevie objected to Lindsey having written "Packing up/Shacking up's all you want to do," she assumed he was accusing her of infidelity. Maybe she misinterpreted. He might have been unhappy she was less interested in commitment.
It's not possible for me to be anything but speculative. They know; I don't. From her perspective, maybe she thought she could have said a lot worse, and still would have been nothing but honest.
She believes--after she's gone--her ex-lover will be so lonely he'll sink into madness, i.e. clinical depression. The line about being washed clean: in one way it's conciliatory, but--like the rest of the song--it carries a sting, if you hear it in a different way.
By hoping he'll come out of it washed clean--sooner or later--she presumes he NEEDS to be cleaned. Until he learns to look at himself honestly--which ought to include re-evaluating his attitude toward women--he's going to remain lonely. That until he gets his shit together, no one will want to be with him.
My interpretation is based on how the lyrics criticize Buckingham, the most obvious example being "players only love you when they're playing." But there's more...
Of the three times she sings "Women, they will come and they will go," twice she precedes it with "Say..." In her lyrics, some things are left unsaid: similar to the way people actually talk. If she hadn't dropped these elements, the entire line would be:
YOU say, "Women, they will come and they will go."
The "you" and the quotation marks are only implied...but (I think) they're intended.
Overall, Stevie's saying, "Because I'm a woman, you didn't respect me as an individual. That's how you treat ALL women. Maybe you think you're open-minded, but you've got a lot to learn."
BTW, in the first chorus--between "Thunder only happens when it's raining," and the next line--ah, that drum riff! It's irresistible.
Word is, Stevie composed the song on piano in ten minutes. Christine McVie thought it was weak: "only three chords, and a couple of notes on the left hand." Then Lindsey added the guitar, with an eye (ear?) toward maintaining the unified feel, while including subtle differences in each part of the song. After the band finished arranging it, Christine might have felt differently...and if not then, well...maybe after "Dreams" hit #1?
Play it on headphones, and "listen carefully" to how Stevie's backing vocals are like a delayed echo of the preceding lines...and--hold on now--are those chimes I'm hearing? There are reasons you couldn't turn on a radio in the late '70s without hearing this song, and why Rumours sold 40 million.
Well, your choice of words sounds slightly harsh, but...yeah, you're on target. I worked in data processing for 20 years but--having been on disability for the past two--I now have a lot of time. And music is very important to me: approx. 2000 titles in my collection. You could hardly imagine how elaborately I've personalized my iTunes library...but to me it seems natural, being an outlet for my biggest hobbies (music and graphic arts).
Well, your choice of words sounds slightly harsh, but...yeah, you're on target. I worked in data processing for 20 years but--having been on disability for the past two--I now have a lot of time. And music is very important to me: approx. 2000 titles in my collection. You could hardly imagine how elaborately I've personalized my iTunes library...but to me it seems natural, being an outlet for my biggest hobbies (music and graphic arts).
I find it difficult to keep up with replying to my e-mail, because I sit down to write a quick message and am surprised to notice...
I find it difficult to keep up with replying to my e-mail, because I sit down to write a quick message and am surprised to notice three hours have gone by, and "oh shit, here I go again." I try to be more brief, but I have something called schizotypal personality disorder (a kind of extreme introversion, common among people who were bullied a lot as kids, like I was); I prefer spending most of my time alone, and often regard people as threatening. One of the symptoms is "overelaborate speech." I'd guess it arises from feeling as if no one understands me. I used to write a great deal more (some of it for publication) but my health has put limits on my verbosity. The flood of words still forces its way out, once in awhile.
At least I'm not a basement dweller; I like my place, in a quiet section of a medium-to-large sized city. My agoraphobia comes and goes; lately I've been enjoying being out in the world. I can't drive safely anymore, which helps; riding the buses & trains forces me to be around people more. A friend (who is protective and very observant) has noticed I'm not spending so much time in hibernation as I once did. I have a small number of close friends, which is what I prefer.
@foreverdrone Read the behind the stuff drama about "Silver Springs". After Linsey write "Go Your Own Way", Stevie wrote "Silver Springs" in response, and it sounded just as angry. He didn't like the way it made him feel. So when Stevie wasn't needed in the studio one day, Lindsey convinced the band to exclude it from the album. And because with him, it was always his way or the highway, he convinced them to agree with him. He made Mick tell Stevie Nicks outside in the parking lot later on, when he decided to replace "Silver Springs" with "I Don't...
@foreverdrone Read the behind the stuff drama about "Silver Springs". After Linsey write "Go Your Own Way", Stevie wrote "Silver Springs" in response, and it sounded just as angry. He didn't like the way it made him feel. So when Stevie wasn't needed in the studio one day, Lindsey convinced the band to exclude it from the album. And because with him, it was always his way or the highway, he convinced them to agree with him. He made Mick tell Stevie Nicks outside in the parking lot later on, when he decided to replace "Silver Springs" with "I Don't Want to Know", which was a song Stevie wrote before they joined Fleetwood Mac and were a duo. She was pretty angry, to say the least. And to add insult to injury, they put it as the b-side to "Go Your Own Way".
@foreverdrone do you think there's a chance she is saying that he wants to hold on because of loneliness and not love? and after being with other women he will know if he really loved her or the idea of having someone steady. So "you say women they'll come and go but I love YOU", but that's not true because you love what we have, not me...
@foreverdrone do you think there's a chance she is saying that he wants to hold on because of loneliness and not love? and after being with other women he will know if he really loved her or the idea of having someone steady. So "you say women they'll come and go but I love YOU", but that's not true because you love what we have, not me...
Imagine they both want out and process their loss in songs and then they have to sing this forever because it's the most successful ever. haha, what a pain in the...
Imagine they both want out and process their loss in songs and then they have to sing this forever because it's the most successful ever. haha, what a pain in the ass.
Cursed "forever"? Well, that was a bit strong. Stevie does hold out for Lindsey a thin thread of hope: "When the rain washes you clean, you'll know." She wrote "when" not "if".
However I've heard this song described as being generous to Buckingham, in contrast to "Go Your Own Way" being scathing towards Nicks. If I emphasized the critical aspects of the lyrics of "Dreams" it's because (I think) they've been minimized or ignored.
Conversely: when Stevie objected to Lindsey having written "Packing up/Shacking up's all you want to do," she assumed he was accusing her of infidelity. Maybe she misinterpreted. He might have been unhappy she was less interested in commitment.
It's not possible for me to be anything but speculative. They know; I don't. From her perspective, maybe she thought she could have said a lot worse, and still would have been nothing but honest.
She believes--after she's gone--her ex-lover will be so lonely he'll sink into madness, i.e. clinical depression. The line about being washed clean: in one way it's conciliatory, but--like the rest of the song--it carries a sting, if you hear it in a different way.
By hoping he'll come out of it washed clean--sooner or later--she presumes he NEEDS to be cleaned. Until he learns to look at himself honestly--which ought to include re-evaluating his attitude toward women--he's going to remain lonely. That until he gets his shit together, no one will want to be with him.
My interpretation is based on how the lyrics criticize Buckingham, the most obvious example being "players only love you when they're playing." But there's more...
Of the three times she sings "Women, they will come and they will go," twice she precedes it with "Say..." In her lyrics, some things are left unsaid: similar to the way people actually talk. If she hadn't dropped these elements, the entire line would be:
The "you" and the quotation marks are only implied...but (I think) they're intended.
Overall, Stevie's saying, "Because I'm a woman, you didn't respect me as an individual. That's how you treat ALL women. Maybe you think you're open-minded, but you've got a lot to learn."
BTW, in the first chorus--between "Thunder only happens when it's raining," and the next line--ah, that drum riff! It's irresistible.
Word is, Stevie composed the song on piano in ten minutes. Christine McVie thought it was weak: "only three chords, and a couple of notes on the left hand." Then Lindsey added the guitar, with an eye (ear?) toward maintaining the unified feel, while including subtle differences in each part of the song. After the band finished arranging it, Christine might have felt differently...and if not then, well...maybe after "Dreams" hit #1?
Play it on headphones, and "listen carefully" to how Stevie's backing vocals are like a delayed echo of the preceding lines...and--hold on now--are those chimes I'm hearing? There are reasons you couldn't turn on a radio in the late '70s without hearing this song, and why Rumours sold 40 million.
Seriously... Do you write this shit for a living or do you simply have no life?
Seriously... Do you write this shit for a living or do you simply have no life?
I love music and looking at these comments, but jeeez. Who has the time to type all of that stuff? I wish I did.
I love music and looking at these comments, but jeeez. Who has the time to type all of that stuff? I wish I did.
Don't mean to sound snide. I do thank you.
Don't mean to sound snide. I do thank you.
Well, your choice of words sounds slightly harsh, but...yeah, you're on target. I worked in data processing for 20 years but--having been on disability for the past two--I now have a lot of time. And music is very important to me: approx. 2000 titles in my collection. You could hardly imagine how elaborately I've personalized my iTunes library...but to me it seems natural, being an outlet for my biggest hobbies (music and graphic arts).
Well, your choice of words sounds slightly harsh, but...yeah, you're on target. I worked in data processing for 20 years but--having been on disability for the past two--I now have a lot of time. And music is very important to me: approx. 2000 titles in my collection. You could hardly imagine how elaborately I've personalized my iTunes library...but to me it seems natural, being an outlet for my biggest hobbies (music and graphic arts).
I find it difficult to keep up with replying to my e-mail, because I sit down to write a quick message and am surprised to notice...
I find it difficult to keep up with replying to my e-mail, because I sit down to write a quick message and am surprised to notice three hours have gone by, and "oh shit, here I go again." I try to be more brief, but I have something called schizotypal personality disorder (a kind of extreme introversion, common among people who were bullied a lot as kids, like I was); I prefer spending most of my time alone, and often regard people as threatening. One of the symptoms is "overelaborate speech." I'd guess it arises from feeling as if no one understands me. I used to write a great deal more (some of it for publication) but my health has put limits on my verbosity. The flood of words still forces its way out, once in awhile.
At least I'm not a basement dweller; I like my place, in a quiet section of a medium-to-large sized city. My agoraphobia comes and goes; lately I've been enjoying being out in the world. I can't drive safely anymore, which helps; riding the buses & trains forces me to be around people more. A friend (who is protective and very observant) has noticed I'm not spending so much time in hibernation as I once did. I have a small number of close friends, which is what I prefer.
foreverdrone
foreverdrone
I think I can relate to you somehow. because I feel that way sometimes, but I don't know if I do have the same disorder.
I think I can relate to you somehow. because I feel that way sometimes, but I don't know if I do have the same disorder.
I hope you won't mind if I email you.
I hope you won't mind if I email you.
@foreverdrone Read the behind the stuff drama about "Silver Springs". After Linsey write "Go Your Own Way", Stevie wrote "Silver Springs" in response, and it sounded just as angry. He didn't like the way it made him feel. So when Stevie wasn't needed in the studio one day, Lindsey convinced the band to exclude it from the album. And because with him, it was always his way or the highway, he convinced them to agree with him. He made Mick tell Stevie Nicks outside in the parking lot later on, when he decided to replace "Silver Springs" with "I Don't...
@foreverdrone Read the behind the stuff drama about "Silver Springs". After Linsey write "Go Your Own Way", Stevie wrote "Silver Springs" in response, and it sounded just as angry. He didn't like the way it made him feel. So when Stevie wasn't needed in the studio one day, Lindsey convinced the band to exclude it from the album. And because with him, it was always his way or the highway, he convinced them to agree with him. He made Mick tell Stevie Nicks outside in the parking lot later on, when he decided to replace "Silver Springs" with "I Don't Want to Know", which was a song Stevie wrote before they joined Fleetwood Mac and were a duo. She was pretty angry, to say the least. And to add insult to injury, they put it as the b-side to "Go Your Own Way".
@foreverdrone do you think there's a chance she is saying that he wants to hold on because of loneliness and not love? and after being with other women he will know if he really loved her or the idea of having someone steady. So "you say women they'll come and go but I love YOU", but that's not true because you love what we have, not me...
@foreverdrone do you think there's a chance she is saying that he wants to hold on because of loneliness and not love? and after being with other women he will know if he really loved her or the idea of having someone steady. So "you say women they'll come and go but I love YOU", but that's not true because you love what we have, not me...
Imagine they both want out and process their loss in songs and then they have to sing this forever because it's the most successful ever. haha, what a pain in the...
Imagine they both want out and process their loss in songs and then they have to sing this forever because it's the most successful ever. haha, what a pain in the ass.