Disagree entirely, with most of this. Have studied the song greatly, so may be able to offer some fact based insight.
The song is about socialite, Edie Palmer. A one time girlfriend of Bob Dylan, who cheated on him, with a number of people, while he was an up and coming musician, and eventually left him for the artist Andy Warhol. Their lives went different ways, with Dylan moving on to fame and fortune, and Palmer becoming destitute, and dying a homeless drug addict. Sadly, the song is black humour on Dylans part, mocking the girl after she was dumped by Warhol, and quickly lost the brief fame she had as his girlfriend.
Most of the song hints at a rich, fame hungry girl, who was maybe destined for a fall. But there are many hints to what happened to her, after falling on hard times:
“You never turned around to see the frowns on the jugglers and the clowns. When they all come down and did tricks for you”
This refers to the many suitors that Palmer had. Many men, trying to impress and court her, and how much she loved it. Dylan refers to them as “jugglers and clowns”, as in, men trying to entertain her, trying to catch her attention. Dylan thought of them quite literally as desperate clowns. He comments that she had little care for their feelings, and probably refers to himself as one of these “clowns”, as he was well known to have pursued Palmer vigorously, as a younger man.
“You said you'd never compromise. With the mystery tramp, but now you realize. He's not selling any alibis. As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes. And ask him do you want to make a deal?”
This refers to the fact that Palmer resorted to prostitution, not literally, but in Dylans eyes. It was well known that Palmer slept about a lot, mostly for gifts, and fame – generally sleeping with anyone she though of as “hip” – Dylan being one of them. He’s commenting that she used to make fun of “working class people”, and considered herself a better class, but at the same time was (in Dylan’s opinion) prostituting herself to the same people, for fame.
“You used to ride on the chrome horse with your diplomat. Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat. Ain't it hard when you discover that. He really wasn't where it's at, after he took from you everything he could steal.”
“The diplomat” was one of many names Dylan referred to the artist Andy Warhol. Dylan and Warhol were known enemies of the New York art scene. Dylan, the legitimate artist, and star, whereas Warhol was more “shock” value person, who attained fame by courting the media, and trying to shock. Dylan disliked Warhol, and his “factory” immensely, and felt of them as untalented wannabes. He called him “the diplomat”, as although he had an exterior image as a wild artist, he was in his early 40s, and very wealthy, so Dylan felt it was all an act, and he was in fact a very establish piece of New York society. “Chrome Horse” he is obviously referring to a car. The Siamese cat line is referring to Warhol’s almost comedic artistic decadence. The imagery of a man walking around town with a Siamese cat (very rare at the time) on his shoulder, was Dylan explaining how ridiculous he felt Warhol was, and how much attention he craved. “He really wasn't where it's at, after he took from you everything he could steal”. Warhol’s 60s fame was seen as a “fad” at the time, and Dylan was basically saying “you backed the wrong horse”, as in the late 60s, Dylan really was the biggest artist/star in the world, rivalling the Beatles, and Warhol had slipped into obscurity.
“You used to be so amused At Napoleon in rags and the language that he used Go to him now, he calls you, you can't refuse. When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose You're invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal.”
Someone touched on this earlier, claiming “Napoleon in rags” was referring to himself, Bob Dylan. Nice, but sadly wrong. “Napoleon in rags” was another Dylan (mocking) nickname of the artist Andy Warhol. As stated earlier, Warhol painted himself as a beatnik/struggling artist, yet, he was immensely wealthy, middle class, and powerful, in the new york scene. He was also at least 20 years older than Dylan at the time. “Napoleon in rags” was basically Dylan mocking the image Warhol tried to convey of himself, stating that he was actually, underneath all the rags, and imagery, a little, ageing powerful man, who dictated himself to people. As a parting shot “Go to him now”, Dylan is telling Palmer to go to the man she left him for, and states that they are both “invisible”, as in, not famous, whereas, he was world start. Basically stating what a mistake she actually made.
In conclusion, the crux of the song is the fact that Eadie Palmer, left Dylan, as a struggling musician, in the new york scene, to date the 40 year old artist, Andy Warhol, for what Dylan felt were money related issues. He was very rich and famous in the early 60s after all. Dylan, rather darkly, is mocking them both, and basically stating that “you left me for money, but now look at you – your nothing, and I’m huge”.
Her name was Edie Sedwyck and how could she have cheated on Dylan when Dylan was married and had not disclosed this to her. She found out he was married very uncomfortably through Warhol.
Her name was Edie Sedwyck and how could she have cheated on Dylan when Dylan was married and had not disclosed this to her. She found out he was married very uncomfortably through Warhol.
Very insightful. Yes indeed I always thought that he was referring to Worhal in all of those parts.
Yes. I really think he was referring to Andy Worhal in the Chrome Horse and Diplomat part. Not only because this story is very much like Edie's but also because he didnt have a liking for Worhal. Worhal apparently video-taped Dylan when he was picking up Edie and in return. Dylan stole one of his paintings and used it as a dart board!
Very insightful. Yes indeed I always thought that he was referring to Worhal in all of those parts.
Yes. I really think he was referring to Andy Worhal in the Chrome Horse and Diplomat part. Not only because this story is very much like Edie's but also because he didnt have a liking for Worhal. Worhal apparently video-taped Dylan when he was picking up Edie and in return. Dylan stole one of his paintings and used it as a dart board!
Agreed with Joeo78501, Dylan secretly married when he was allegedly in relation with Edie ...this song is not about that girl ...and read my above comments for more details on this topic
Agreed with Joeo78501, Dylan secretly married when he was allegedly in relation with Edie ...this song is not about that girl ...and read my above comments for more details on this topic
I think this is a wonderful interpretation of Rolling Stone. Before I read the above entry, I didn't have a clue, other than some girl in college who used to get drunk, now was out of college and having difficult times. But all the details from the above entry are really enlightening to me. Read in the newspaper today in the story about the $2 million sale of Dylan's first draft of that song, that the song was about a socialite who lost her status. I thought, that was a real person, the song was about a real person? And...
I think this is a wonderful interpretation of Rolling Stone. Before I read the above entry, I didn't have a clue, other than some girl in college who used to get drunk, now was out of college and having difficult times. But all the details from the above entry are really enlightening to me. Read in the newspaper today in the story about the $2 million sale of Dylan's first draft of that song, that the song was about a socialite who lost her status. I thought, that was a real person, the song was about a real person? And it set to wondering more about the lyrics, and that sent me to this website. Thanks to the above contributor. The others are interesting too, show many people have an interest in this.
I created an account just to reply to this comment because it's so misinformed.
I created an account just to reply to this comment because it's so misinformed.
As others have noted, Warhol was homosexual/asexual. Both he and Dylan became famous at about the same time (early 60s). I have to wonder if the author of this comment has ever seen a photo of Andy Warhol if he/she would describe him as a beatnik.
As others have noted, Warhol was homosexual/asexual. Both he and Dylan became famous at about the same time (early 60s). I have to wonder if the author of this comment has ever seen a photo of Andy Warhol if he/she would describe him as a beatnik.
If we can believe Wikipedia, Dylan did not meet Edie Sedgwick until after she had left Warhol's circle, in 1965, well after Dylan had established a hugely successful career.
If we can believe Wikipedia, Dylan did not meet Edie Sedgwick until after she had left Warhol's circle, in 1965, well after Dylan had established a hugely successful career.
Lastly, even thirty years after his death, Andy Warhol is...
Lastly, even thirty years after his death, Andy Warhol is not "obscure" and he certainly was a relevant figure in popular culture throughout the 1960s and 1970s.
The song may be about Sedgwick--who knows? Dylan has described it as a "revenge" song, so perhaps he wrote it to get the last word on a lover who jilted him. Others have described it as a "liberation" song (the woman is finally free of the material possessions/ emotional entanglements that bound her).
nice detective work, but how about the genius behind the lyrics? the writing is stuff that i think about but never get it down on paper or record quick enuf to articulate so eloquently as Dylan.
nice detective work, but how about the genius behind the lyrics? the writing is stuff that i think about but never get it down on paper or record quick enuf to articulate so eloquently as Dylan.
@ceej1979 Dylan operated more on feeling than on logic. He's an INFP and I'm an INFP. Feeling people are usually not nice. If we feel anger or sadness, we will express it truthfully and honestly - we will not hide - we will not be fake. Nice people usually talk shit about you when you're not around. Being nice is mental slavery.
@ceej1979 Dylan operated more on feeling than on logic. He's an INFP and I'm an INFP. Feeling people are usually not nice. If we feel anger or sadness, we will express it truthfully and honestly - we will not hide - we will not be fake. Nice people usually talk shit about you when you're not around. Being nice is mental slavery.
@ceej1979 "In 1965 Neuwirth had introduced Dylan to Edie Sedgwick, one of Andy Warhol’s “superstars”. Together they encouraged her to leave the world of Warhol and the Factory, but it was Neuwirth who had the significant affair with the waif-like model and actor, even though some of Dylan’s songs of the period, including Just Like a Woman, were assumed to be about her."
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/may/20/bob-neuwirth-obituary
@ceej1979 "In 1965 Neuwirth had introduced Dylan to Edie Sedgwick, one of Andy Warhol’s “superstars”. Together they encouraged her to leave the world of Warhol and the Factory, but it was Neuwirth who had the significant affair with the waif-like model and actor, even though some of Dylan’s songs of the period, including Just Like a Woman, were assumed to be about her."
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/may/20/bob-neuwirth-obituary
Disagree entirely, with most of this. Have studied the song greatly, so may be able to offer some fact based insight.
The song is about socialite, Edie Palmer. A one time girlfriend of Bob Dylan, who cheated on him, with a number of people, while he was an up and coming musician, and eventually left him for the artist Andy Warhol. Their lives went different ways, with Dylan moving on to fame and fortune, and Palmer becoming destitute, and dying a homeless drug addict. Sadly, the song is black humour on Dylans part, mocking the girl after she was dumped by Warhol, and quickly lost the brief fame she had as his girlfriend.
Most of the song hints at a rich, fame hungry girl, who was maybe destined for a fall. But there are many hints to what happened to her, after falling on hard times:
“You never turned around to see the frowns on the jugglers and the clowns. When they all come down and did tricks for you”
This refers to the many suitors that Palmer had. Many men, trying to impress and court her, and how much she loved it. Dylan refers to them as “jugglers and clowns”, as in, men trying to entertain her, trying to catch her attention. Dylan thought of them quite literally as desperate clowns. He comments that she had little care for their feelings, and probably refers to himself as one of these “clowns”, as he was well known to have pursued Palmer vigorously, as a younger man.
“You said you'd never compromise. With the mystery tramp, but now you realize. He's not selling any alibis. As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes. And ask him do you want to make a deal?”
This refers to the fact that Palmer resorted to prostitution, not literally, but in Dylans eyes. It was well known that Palmer slept about a lot, mostly for gifts, and fame – generally sleeping with anyone she though of as “hip” – Dylan being one of them. He’s commenting that she used to make fun of “working class people”, and considered herself a better class, but at the same time was (in Dylan’s opinion) prostituting herself to the same people, for fame.
“You used to ride on the chrome horse with your diplomat. Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat. Ain't it hard when you discover that. He really wasn't where it's at, after he took from you everything he could steal.”
“The diplomat” was one of many names Dylan referred to the artist Andy Warhol. Dylan and Warhol were known enemies of the New York art scene. Dylan, the legitimate artist, and star, whereas Warhol was more “shock” value person, who attained fame by courting the media, and trying to shock. Dylan disliked Warhol, and his “factory” immensely, and felt of them as untalented wannabes. He called him “the diplomat”, as although he had an exterior image as a wild artist, he was in his early 40s, and very wealthy, so Dylan felt it was all an act, and he was in fact a very establish piece of New York society. “Chrome Horse” he is obviously referring to a car. The Siamese cat line is referring to Warhol’s almost comedic artistic decadence. The imagery of a man walking around town with a Siamese cat (very rare at the time) on his shoulder, was Dylan explaining how ridiculous he felt Warhol was, and how much attention he craved. “He really wasn't where it's at, after he took from you everything he could steal”. Warhol’s 60s fame was seen as a “fad” at the time, and Dylan was basically saying “you backed the wrong horse”, as in the late 60s, Dylan really was the biggest artist/star in the world, rivalling the Beatles, and Warhol had slipped into obscurity.
“You used to be so amused At Napoleon in rags and the language that he used Go to him now, he calls you, you can't refuse. When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose You're invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal.”
Someone touched on this earlier, claiming “Napoleon in rags” was referring to himself, Bob Dylan. Nice, but sadly wrong. “Napoleon in rags” was another Dylan (mocking) nickname of the artist Andy Warhol. As stated earlier, Warhol painted himself as a beatnik/struggling artist, yet, he was immensely wealthy, middle class, and powerful, in the new york scene. He was also at least 20 years older than Dylan at the time. “Napoleon in rags” was basically Dylan mocking the image Warhol tried to convey of himself, stating that he was actually, underneath all the rags, and imagery, a little, ageing powerful man, who dictated himself to people. As a parting shot “Go to him now”, Dylan is telling Palmer to go to the man she left him for, and states that they are both “invisible”, as in, not famous, whereas, he was world start. Basically stating what a mistake she actually made.
In conclusion, the crux of the song is the fact that Eadie Palmer, left Dylan, as a struggling musician, in the new york scene, to date the 40 year old artist, Andy Warhol, for what Dylan felt were money related issues. He was very rich and famous in the early 60s after all. Dylan, rather darkly, is mocking them both, and basically stating that “you left me for money, but now look at you – your nothing, and I’m huge”.
Her name was Edie Sedwyck and how could she have cheated on Dylan when Dylan was married and had not disclosed this to her. She found out he was married very uncomfortably through Warhol.
Her name was Edie Sedwyck and how could she have cheated on Dylan when Dylan was married and had not disclosed this to her. She found out he was married very uncomfortably through Warhol.
Very insightful. Yes indeed I always thought that he was referring to Worhal in all of those parts. Yes. I really think he was referring to Andy Worhal in the Chrome Horse and Diplomat part. Not only because this story is very much like Edie's but also because he didnt have a liking for Worhal. Worhal apparently video-taped Dylan when he was picking up Edie and in return. Dylan stole one of his paintings and used it as a dart board!
Very insightful. Yes indeed I always thought that he was referring to Worhal in all of those parts. Yes. I really think he was referring to Andy Worhal in the Chrome Horse and Diplomat part. Not only because this story is very much like Edie's but also because he didnt have a liking for Worhal. Worhal apparently video-taped Dylan when he was picking up Edie and in return. Dylan stole one of his paintings and used it as a dart board!
Edie also came from a very RICH RICH family.
Edie also came from a very RICH RICH family.
Agreed with Joeo78501, Dylan secretly married when he was allegedly in relation with Edie ...this song is not about that girl ...and read my above comments for more details on this topic
Agreed with Joeo78501, Dylan secretly married when he was allegedly in relation with Edie ...this song is not about that girl ...and read my above comments for more details on this topic
Any idea what the following part means? I couldn't quite figure it out.
Any idea what the following part means? I couldn't quite figure it out.
"With the mystery tramp, but now you realize He's not selling any alibis As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes"
"With the mystery tramp, but now you realize He's not selling any alibis As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes"
Cheer
Cheer
Andy Warhol is quite the legitimate artist.
Andy Warhol is quite the legitimate artist.
I think this is a wonderful interpretation of Rolling Stone. Before I read the above entry, I didn't have a clue, other than some girl in college who used to get drunk, now was out of college and having difficult times. But all the details from the above entry are really enlightening to me. Read in the newspaper today in the story about the $2 million sale of Dylan's first draft of that song, that the song was about a socialite who lost her status. I thought, that was a real person, the song was about a real person? And...
I think this is a wonderful interpretation of Rolling Stone. Before I read the above entry, I didn't have a clue, other than some girl in college who used to get drunk, now was out of college and having difficult times. But all the details from the above entry are really enlightening to me. Read in the newspaper today in the story about the $2 million sale of Dylan's first draft of that song, that the song was about a socialite who lost her status. I thought, that was a real person, the song was about a real person? And it set to wondering more about the lyrics, and that sent me to this website. Thanks to the above contributor. The others are interesting too, show many people have an interest in this.
@ceej1979 andy warhol was a homosexual.
@ceej1979 andy warhol was a homosexual.
I created an account just to reply to this comment because it's so misinformed.
I created an account just to reply to this comment because it's so misinformed.
As others have noted, Warhol was homosexual/asexual. Both he and Dylan became famous at about the same time (early 60s). I have to wonder if the author of this comment has ever seen a photo of Andy Warhol if he/she would describe him as a beatnik.
As others have noted, Warhol was homosexual/asexual. Both he and Dylan became famous at about the same time (early 60s). I have to wonder if the author of this comment has ever seen a photo of Andy Warhol if he/she would describe him as a beatnik.
If we can believe Wikipedia, Dylan did not meet Edie Sedgwick until after she had left Warhol's circle, in 1965, well after Dylan had established a hugely successful career.
If we can believe Wikipedia, Dylan did not meet Edie Sedgwick until after she had left Warhol's circle, in 1965, well after Dylan had established a hugely successful career.
Lastly, even thirty years after his death, Andy Warhol is...
Lastly, even thirty years after his death, Andy Warhol is not "obscure" and he certainly was a relevant figure in popular culture throughout the 1960s and 1970s.
The song may be about Sedgwick--who knows? Dylan has described it as a "revenge" song, so perhaps he wrote it to get the last word on a lover who jilted him. Others have described it as a "liberation" song (the woman is finally free of the material possessions/ emotional entanglements that bound her).
But it's not about Andy Warhol.
nice detective work, but how about the genius behind the lyrics? the writing is stuff that i think about but never get it down on paper or record quick enuf to articulate so eloquently as Dylan.
nice detective work, but how about the genius behind the lyrics? the writing is stuff that i think about but never get it down on paper or record quick enuf to articulate so eloquently as Dylan.
@ceej1979
@ceej1979
A 'chrome horse' I believe is slang for a motorcycle.
A 'chrome horse' I believe is slang for a motorcycle.
@ceej1979 Dylan operated more on feeling than on logic. He's an INFP and I'm an INFP. Feeling people are usually not nice. If we feel anger or sadness, we will express it truthfully and honestly - we will not hide - we will not be fake. Nice people usually talk shit about you when you're not around. Being nice is mental slavery.
@ceej1979 Dylan operated more on feeling than on logic. He's an INFP and I'm an INFP. Feeling people are usually not nice. If we feel anger or sadness, we will express it truthfully and honestly - we will not hide - we will not be fake. Nice people usually talk shit about you when you're not around. Being nice is mental slavery.
@ceej1979 Dylan did not steal the painting - he traded it for "the" Factory sofa
@ceej1979 Dylan did not steal the painting - he traded it for "the" Factory sofa
@ceej1979 "In 1965 Neuwirth had introduced Dylan to Edie Sedgwick, one of Andy Warhol’s “superstars”. Together they encouraged her to leave the world of Warhol and the Factory, but it was Neuwirth who had the significant affair with the waif-like model and actor, even though some of Dylan’s songs of the period, including Just Like a Woman, were assumed to be about her." https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/may/20/bob-neuwirth-obituary
@ceej1979 "In 1965 Neuwirth had introduced Dylan to Edie Sedgwick, one of Andy Warhol’s “superstars”. Together they encouraged her to leave the world of Warhol and the Factory, but it was Neuwirth who had the significant affair with the waif-like model and actor, even though some of Dylan’s songs of the period, including Just Like a Woman, were assumed to be about her." https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/may/20/bob-neuwirth-obituary