Regarding "efurste"s belief that this song means more than the words imply, on this album, and in many of Sufjan Steven's songs, the lyrics are meant to be taken at face value. I think it's just a simple rendering of the story, like "Transfiguration". For a more weighted version of the story, try Leonard Cohen's "Abraham and Isaac." However, I like this one better. It's simple and sweet.
Regarding "anxiouschristian"s assertion that Mt. Moriah (where this story took place) was where Jesus was crucified, that is not correct. According to tradition (no one really knows where Mt. Moriah is) the Jewish Temple (now the Muslim Dome of the Rock) was built on Mt. Moriah right where Isaac was almost sacrificed.
However, there is an equally cool tradition regarding the location of the Crucifixion. The mountain was called "Golgotha", the "Hill of the Skull," which (again, according to tradition) was the burial place of Adam. In many ancient paintings and icons of the crucifixion you will find a small skull under the cross. That is Adam.
Further, the wood used to make the cross (yet again, according to tradition) came from the Tree of Life. Adam sent Seth, his third son, to Eden to get some fruit from the Tree of Life so he wouldn't die. But, when Seth returned, the Adam was already dead. He planted the fruit in Adam's mouth and from it grew a new tree which would eventually be used for Jesus' Cross. Thus, the instrument of death was literally and figuratively the Tree of Life.
criostoir,
Your "tradition" seems very poetic, but fortunately we have a Bible that is not some fictional nice-sounding poem, but Truth. I don't know my Jerusalem history very well, so I will take your word for it on the Mt. Moriah statement. However, the Scripture clearly says that Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eve, where the Tree of Life was, and a cheribum with a flaming sword flashing back and forth guarded the entrance to Eden and the way to the Tree of Life. That clearly rules out either of the traditions of the...
criostoir,
Your "tradition" seems very poetic, but fortunately we have a Bible that is not some fictional nice-sounding poem, but Truth. I don't know my Jerusalem history very well, so I will take your word for it on the Mt. Moriah statement. However, the Scripture clearly says that Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eve, where the Tree of Life was, and a cheribum with a flaming sword flashing back and forth guarded the entrance to Eden and the way to the Tree of Life. That clearly rules out either of the traditions of the tree growing out of Adam's mouth, and that Jesus was crucified on the Tree of Life.
Though both of those are eloquently written traditions, it is of utmost importance that we distinguish truth from tradition, and never hold traditions as fact-- especially if they contradict the truth.
Denniac,
too many Christians place too much emphasis on that distinction. can't all of the Law and the Prophets be summarized in "love God and love your neighbor?" can't all of the Gospel be boiled down to "Jesus died and rose again"? the rest is commentary. while these traditions may seem to contradict what is written in Scripture, they're pretty consistent with the metanarrative theme of God's continual relationship first with the Hebrew people and then with the followers of Christ. the thought that Adam, the man who went to a tree (the tree of the...
Denniac,
too many Christians place too much emphasis on that distinction. can't all of the Law and the Prophets be summarized in "love God and love your neighbor?" can't all of the Gospel be boiled down to "Jesus died and rose again"? the rest is commentary. while these traditions may seem to contradict what is written in Scripture, they're pretty consistent with the metanarrative theme of God's continual relationship first with the Hebrew people and then with the followers of Christ. the thought that Adam, the man who went to a tree (the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) and brought death to the world, might be buried underneath the very spot where Jesus, the man who went to a tree (the cross, or whatever it was upon which He was crucified) and brought life to the world, is perfectly consistent with that theme. further, the thought that the cross (or whatever) might have been built with wood from the Tree of Life, undoing the work of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, is also perfectly consistent.
that is not to say either tradition is true. but you dismissed them both far too quickly.
This is probably too controversial a topic, but some believe in reincarnation. I've read that Adam, after multiple reincarnations, would be born as Jesus. After reading the post, I find it fitting (in many ways) that Adam would be made the first man, get kicked out of the "garden", then be the very one to break the bonds shackling men to earth and lead the way to heaven. Also interesting to note that the tree growing from Adam's grave is used to carve the cross. It fits in that reincarnation karmic cycle idea perfectly. Just a thought.
This is probably too controversial a topic, but some believe in reincarnation. I've read that Adam, after multiple reincarnations, would be born as Jesus. After reading the post, I find it fitting (in many ways) that Adam would be made the first man, get kicked out of the "garden", then be the very one to break the bonds shackling men to earth and lead the way to heaven. Also interesting to note that the tree growing from Adam's grave is used to carve the cross. It fits in that reincarnation karmic cycle idea perfectly. Just a thought.
Regarding "efurste"s belief that this song means more than the words imply, on this album, and in many of Sufjan Steven's songs, the lyrics are meant to be taken at face value. I think it's just a simple rendering of the story, like "Transfiguration". For a more weighted version of the story, try Leonard Cohen's "Abraham and Isaac." However, I like this one better. It's simple and sweet.
Regarding "anxiouschristian"s assertion that Mt. Moriah (where this story took place) was where Jesus was crucified, that is not correct. According to tradition (no one really knows where Mt. Moriah is) the Jewish Temple (now the Muslim Dome of the Rock) was built on Mt. Moriah right where Isaac was almost sacrificed.
However, there is an equally cool tradition regarding the location of the Crucifixion. The mountain was called "Golgotha", the "Hill of the Skull," which (again, according to tradition) was the burial place of Adam. In many ancient paintings and icons of the crucifixion you will find a small skull under the cross. That is Adam.
Further, the wood used to make the cross (yet again, according to tradition) came from the Tree of Life. Adam sent Seth, his third son, to Eden to get some fruit from the Tree of Life so he wouldn't die. But, when Seth returned, the Adam was already dead. He planted the fruit in Adam's mouth and from it grew a new tree which would eventually be used for Jesus' Cross. Thus, the instrument of death was literally and figuratively the Tree of Life.
Are you bored yet? :-)
criostoir, Your "tradition" seems very poetic, but fortunately we have a Bible that is not some fictional nice-sounding poem, but Truth. I don't know my Jerusalem history very well, so I will take your word for it on the Mt. Moriah statement. However, the Scripture clearly says that Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eve, where the Tree of Life was, and a cheribum with a flaming sword flashing back and forth guarded the entrance to Eden and the way to the Tree of Life. That clearly rules out either of the traditions of the...
criostoir, Your "tradition" seems very poetic, but fortunately we have a Bible that is not some fictional nice-sounding poem, but Truth. I don't know my Jerusalem history very well, so I will take your word for it on the Mt. Moriah statement. However, the Scripture clearly says that Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eve, where the Tree of Life was, and a cheribum with a flaming sword flashing back and forth guarded the entrance to Eden and the way to the Tree of Life. That clearly rules out either of the traditions of the tree growing out of Adam's mouth, and that Jesus was crucified on the Tree of Life.
Though both of those are eloquently written traditions, it is of utmost importance that we distinguish truth from tradition, and never hold traditions as fact-- especially if they contradict the truth.
Denniac, too many Christians place too much emphasis on that distinction. can't all of the Law and the Prophets be summarized in "love God and love your neighbor?" can't all of the Gospel be boiled down to "Jesus died and rose again"? the rest is commentary. while these traditions may seem to contradict what is written in Scripture, they're pretty consistent with the metanarrative theme of God's continual relationship first with the Hebrew people and then with the followers of Christ. the thought that Adam, the man who went to a tree (the tree of the...
Denniac, too many Christians place too much emphasis on that distinction. can't all of the Law and the Prophets be summarized in "love God and love your neighbor?" can't all of the Gospel be boiled down to "Jesus died and rose again"? the rest is commentary. while these traditions may seem to contradict what is written in Scripture, they're pretty consistent with the metanarrative theme of God's continual relationship first with the Hebrew people and then with the followers of Christ. the thought that Adam, the man who went to a tree (the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) and brought death to the world, might be buried underneath the very spot where Jesus, the man who went to a tree (the cross, or whatever it was upon which He was crucified) and brought life to the world, is perfectly consistent with that theme. further, the thought that the cross (or whatever) might have been built with wood from the Tree of Life, undoing the work of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, is also perfectly consistent. that is not to say either tradition is true. but you dismissed them both far too quickly.
This is probably too controversial a topic, but some believe in reincarnation. I've read that Adam, after multiple reincarnations, would be born as Jesus. After reading the post, I find it fitting (in many ways) that Adam would be made the first man, get kicked out of the "garden", then be the very one to break the bonds shackling men to earth and lead the way to heaven. Also interesting to note that the tree growing from Adam's grave is used to carve the cross. It fits in that reincarnation karmic cycle idea perfectly. Just a thought.
This is probably too controversial a topic, but some believe in reincarnation. I've read that Adam, after multiple reincarnations, would be born as Jesus. After reading the post, I find it fitting (in many ways) that Adam would be made the first man, get kicked out of the "garden", then be the very one to break the bonds shackling men to earth and lead the way to heaven. Also interesting to note that the tree growing from Adam's grave is used to carve the cross. It fits in that reincarnation karmic cycle idea perfectly. Just a thought.