Ceremony Lyrics
They find it all a different story,
Notice whom for wheels are turning,
Turn again and turn towards this time,
All she ask's the strength to hold me,
Then again the same old story,
Word will travel oh so quickly,
Travel first and lean towards this time.
Heaven knows, it's got to be this time,
Watching her, these things she said,
The times she cried,
Too frail to wake this time.
Heaven knows, it's got to be this time,
Avenues all lined with trees,
Picture me and then you start watching,
Watching forever, forever,
Watching love grow, forever,
Letting me know, forever.
I'm not sure if this site is for deciphering meaning in songs or just a forum for anyone's half-baked conception of what a song means to them. These are not conflicting exercises, per se, but if you just want to voice the feeling a song evokes in you, FIND SOMEONE TO TALK TO. Especially if it's a song like this that resonates with you. If you're just going to use a song as a Rorschach Test, then all you can tell from people's interpretations is how THEY are thinking. Which is fine and all, but.... boring... To me exploring the writer's intentions to the extent possible sometimes makes a song come to life in a completely different way.
The only comments I've seen here that illuminate this song to me are those explaining the relationship with Annik and the events surrounding it. He loved two people at the same time: a common state of affairs to be sure, but apparently too much for him to handle. I find it interesting that the song isn't explicitly addressed to Annik or his wife. That makes sense; he's confused. Who does he want to be with? He doesn't know what to do. It's in this vein that I wonder who the last stanza specifically is addressed to. Both women? It is clearly about some aspect of a funeral ceremony. He seems to be saying that this ceremony will be good conclusion for everyone involved. "Watching love grow" and "letting me know" seem to imply this. She/they will understand his love for them and he will "know" which one, "loved him the most." He couldn't pick so he cops out. As everyone should know, taking yourself out of this world is NOT a way to show others how you care about them. It shows just the opposite: how much you care about yourself.
The song is beautiful and haunting, but the scene is a disgusting one. Think Guernica for its era's nihilism. War may be a fact of life, and such realities can be captured beautifully -- as they arguably are here. That doesn't change the fact that "war is hell." So is losing a loved one. (Or even thinking you might lose a loved one). Don't confuse poignant depiction with glorification.
This site is for both interpreting meanings and identifying the purposed meanings to songs. don't be an ass, I find both insightful
This site is for both interpreting meanings and identifying the purposed meanings to songs. don't be an ass, I find both insightful
In regards to "which one loved him the most", Ian Curtis's biographies mention that one of the things that was bothering him towards the end was Annik's inability to fully accept his disability, whereas Deborah was the one who would stay up late with him when he felt afraid that he might have a fit and need her help. She writes that what got to her was not the epilepsy but the way that she was estranged from all the interesting things about his life. On that note, I wonder how different things would've been if he had considered that...
In regards to "which one loved him the most", Ian Curtis's biographies mention that one of the things that was bothering him towards the end was Annik's inability to fully accept his disability, whereas Deborah was the one who would stay up late with him when he felt afraid that he might have a fit and need her help. She writes that what got to her was not the epilepsy but the way that she was estranged from all the interesting things about his life. On that note, I wonder how different things would've been if he had considered that maybe others could feel the way he felt, that maybe events were unnerving others, instead of just acknowledging the times they cried. You're write about his confusion though. He noted the conflictions and contradictions between who he wants, who he loves, and who he should objectively love, i.e. who deserves his love.
Also, I've heard that the big thing that he loved about Annik was their mutual lovee and appreciation of art and that refined side of life, how they would go to art galleries together and then go back and hang with the band and talk about sophisticated stuff in front of the others just to be snobs. It seems like this song is about all of Annik's shortcomings. It seems like he wanted Annik to be more like Deborah, or maybe alternatively he would be content with his wife if she were more like Annik. I guess he didn't want...
Also, I've heard that the big thing that he loved about Annik was their mutual lovee and appreciation of art and that refined side of life, how they would go to art galleries together and then go back and hang with the band and talk about sophisticated stuff in front of the others just to be snobs. It seems like this song is about all of Annik's shortcomings. It seems like he wanted Annik to be more like Deborah, or maybe alternatively he would be content with his wife if she were more like Annik. I guess he didn't want his romantic go on this earth to be just another suburban family morning.
There are in fact three known recorded versions of "Ceremony" by Joy Division with Ian Curtis on vocals. The first is a live version from JD's last ever concert. It is on the "Still" album. Most of Ian's vocals are inaudible due to a faulty microphone and the sound crew not starting the tape until the song was already underway. There is also supposedly another recorded version from the same date and venue taped during the afternoon sound check for the concert. It is supposedly circulating among JD tape collectors.
The other known recording is the so-called "studio" version. It's not really a proper studio recording at all though. It was recorded in the bands rehearsal loft (with no audience) on Peter Hook's portable tape deck. It was just a practice session for the upcoming public debut of the song. This recording is the one that is released on the "Heart & Soul" box set.
The vocals on this version are not very well recorded and it is difficult, if not impossible to make out most of the lyrics but it is quite clear that they are substantially different from the lyrics on the New Order version. Bernard Sumner has commented that they could not find any written copy of the lyrics left by Ian and that the remaining band members played and replayed the rehearsal tape over and over to try to make them out. Unable to do this though, they simply made up some new lyrics to fill in the blanks.
Accordingly, any attempt to decipher the true meaning of the song and lyrics, as written by Ian, will be an excersise in futility unless and until some written copy of the genuine lyrics ever turn up
"Galaxie 500" I think had the best interpretation of the song. But that's just me.
"Galaxie 500" I think had the best interpretation of the song. But that's just me.
there is no song on earth that moves me as much as this one. Ian Curtis and Joy Division are timeless, though they have few notable songs, its easy to say that they're in my top 20.
This song is just beautiful. It really shows just how much of his emotions and experiences Ian Curtis could put into his lyrics. I think it's absolutely tragic that there is no good recording of his voice because no one else can give each and give each and every word the same emotion as he could.
At first I didn't think that this song was a goodbye. I thought Closer was much more desperate and suicidal (24 hours, The Eternal seemed like him describing his funeral). Ceremony and Atmosphere both to me seemed more hopeful, as if he was singing about trying to reach out and escape his misery.
The title 'ceremony' makes me think he was referring to his wedding. The first lines appear to be him describing how events turn out worse than he expects (his marriage?). When he launches into the chorus with such passion it makes me think that it's his feelings of despair or what's causing them that he's trying to break. When he says 'its got to be this time' and 'watching love grow' it makes me think that he wants to seize happiness and repair his relationship, rather than end it all forever.
Oh no, this is his final goodbye to her (Deb and his Daughter).
Oh no, this is his final goodbye to her (Deb and his Daughter).
One of the first things I noticed when I first read the lyrics was how he kept referring to time. I knew it was important and I've been thinking about it for a few years. I feel like it refers to seizing the day. He's weighing the consequences of either living in this time and breaking down the barriers to being happy right now or thinking about the future and what people will think about his cheating, particularly how Deborah would feel. However, since he had decided as a teenager that he would kill himself in his early twenties, the choice he would lean towards is obvious.
In truth, I really feel a lot more sorry for Deborah in regards to the love affair. He really was a selfish bastard in a true description of a suicidal person. As she said in her book, her marriage was over and nobody had told her. She also said the words she chose for the tombstone described exactly what happened: "Love will tear us apart".
But what I really like about this song is the 'fuck you world, I'm just going to feel good' in the song's message - "Notice whom for wheels are turning, turn again and turn towards this time" (I don't care about what is fated), "Word will travel, oh so quickly, travel first and lean towards this time" (I don't care about what society will say), "Oh, I'll break them down, no mercy shown, heaven knows, it's got to be this time" (I'm gonna take hold of this life). It's nice because this narcissistic YOLO-ism is taken with a healthy dose of self-doubt and honest descriptions of the human condition (my favorite line is "This is why events unnerve me").
I think the whole song is pretty much to Deb. It's part apology but part "thanks" for putting up with him and it will all pay off soon (in the form of royalty checks..which took a while, but did). I was around when all this was going down and I firmly believe that. They often joked about the shithole they lived in (Macclesfield) and how it would be nice to live in "avenues all lined with trees". And this is his way of promising her she and his Daughter would have just that...just put up with him and often "think...
I think the whole song is pretty much to Deb. It's part apology but part "thanks" for putting up with him and it will all pay off soon (in the form of royalty checks..which took a while, but did). I was around when all this was going down and I firmly believe that. They often joked about the shithole they lived in (Macclesfield) and how it would be nice to live in "avenues all lined with trees". And this is his way of promising her she and his Daughter would have just that...just put up with him and often "think of me".
because the lyrics are different to the New Order version, someone on YouTube tried transcribing the lyrics to the live version and here they are:
I'll break them all, no mercy shown Heaven knows, he's got to be stronger Watching her, she's watching me The times she cried, too frail to wake this time
Oh, I'll break them all, no mercy shown Heaven knows, it's got to be this time Avenues, all lined with trees Picture me, in ten years' time watching Watching forever... Watching forever...
Forever, watching love grow Forever, watching love grow Forever, letting me know
and spell the woman's name properly for pity's sake!
This is probably my favourite new order song. It's ashame there wasn't a chance for a proper recording using Ian's vocals. I have heard to demo on Heart and Soul, and it sounds good. New Order really did the song justice when they re-recorded it in 1987, but i love their original release in 1981 also. As to what Ian was getting at with the lyrics, i can't say, but as with so many other later Joy Division, it delves into the depressive side of Curtis' mind.
It should be....it's his fucking suicide note. It's his "goodbye", etc. .....Really?! How more "depressive" can you get than a "suicide note"....??
It should be....it's his fucking suicide note. It's his "goodbye", etc. .....Really?! How more "depressive" can you get than a "suicide note"....??
I think was mainly an ode to his wife. It's his good-bye song. More than likely the lyrics "watching forver" are aimed at a person's dealing with a loss, in this case, the loss of Ian's life to be a burden for his bandmates, wife, and mistress.
HELL yes. You get it.
HELL yes. You get it.
I love this song.