Smoke & Mirrors

I've spent over a year researching the disorder and not once did the following appear in any text "an overbearing mother who is never satisfied with her child's accomplishments." Sexual abuse at the hands of a mother appeared many times, but it is not a prerequisite for acquiring BPD. Those who have BPD parents (or one parent) may have a higher likelihood of acquiring BPD, but that also is not required. I do agree with you that the song does have similaries to traits of someone with PBD. It's very simplistic, though.

*similarities" ugh.

Yeah, the example was pretty bad I should of explored the other side. Overbearing vs unavailable both have occurrences. They have the same pathology centered around attachment. A child with an overbearing mother must produce results to feel love and still never gets it. A child with an unavailable mother tries to get his mother attention and love and doesnt. Similarly, abuse of any kind will disrupt proper attachment. All different, but all have the same outcome and underlying pathology.

I agree, but I don't agree. Neglect does not make a child feel loved in any way. However, if someone is overbearing, a child will often feel loved (it's not healthy love, but s/he at least believes someone cares enough to be unhappy with her). When one is overbearing, s/he hovers. When one neglects, she's emotionally absent and may eventually disappear from the child's life altogether. And if something causes her to disappear (a divorce; a death; a military tour; etc) than abandonment is the result. And the fear of abandonment is at the crux of BPD. It's also why many with BPD have short-time, multiple lovers (other than the relationships being chaotic). They fear emotional attachment. If the man or woman (the easy lover) leaves them, it's no big deal. They can find other lovers. But if the lover is a true love (someone they actually care for and about...and perhaps even respect), the fear of abandonment is central to the relationship. Fear becomes the issue.

I tend to see fear of abandonment/rejection as more of a symptom of the disorder. At its core is a poor/negative sense of self. They fear rejection because they simply cant tolerate being alone. The depression, feelings of emptiness are overwhelming. They dont view themselves as lovable. This is why they are so self destructive with self harm and suicidal. A suicide attempt can be a good source of attention to help relieve the loneliness. Similarity, cutting produces endorphins and puts them in control. They are feeling something aside from emptiness. <br /> <br /> A relationship can initially give them an emotional high because they receive praise and affection which can temporarily give them a positive self image. But in time they will fall back to their doubts. Small things in the relationship will have big consequences to the pwBPD. They will become paranoid and hypervigilant to rejection because at their core they feel unloveable. If the pwBPD ends the relationship they likely have another person in line to fill them positive ego to relieve their pain and doubts. If the other party terminates the relationship you see the self destructive symptoms discussed earlier.

Yup

You left out the picking fights because they'd rather feel something (anything) rather than nothing. And the reckless behaviors such as overspending; multiple sex partners and risky unprotected sex; reckless driving; binge drinking; etc. There's a great deal to BPD. And there's also treatment, but the brighter then person the less likely s/he'll ever seek it. They learn to live with it, and to do so they learn to manipulate to get desired results. I wonder if the person I know got his desired results from this conversation.

Just so we're clear, Oats. You started this thread and you kept it going. I just served the food, which you could eat or return to the kitchen. I didn't ask for a tip. Heck, I didn't even cook the meal. I just contributed, and if you don't like my part in this than simply don't return to the joint. As for the artist, I adore him. As for the song, it could be about many things, not just BPD. We all experience self-doubt from time-to-time, and we all make believe in different ways. I do my part by always walking into places standing tall; smiling; and being friendly. Sometimes I'm far from confident, but I've learned that by feigning it, eventually (with practice) it takes little effort to get the reaction you want from others.

The reason the song mentions "Mother, are you watching?" is because the song is about Narcissism. The Mother forms the personality traits of her Son and therefore creates the Narcissist. If you read the studies on Narcissistic Personality Disorder, you will find the complete meaning of the song.  :)

Oats2005 seems to have a clearer and broader understanding of BPD. The symptoms and causes and are all fundemental elements in understanding the disorder. But it goes beyond reading and researching what information is presented to you online or through a book. Individuals who are trained and actually qualified can properly diagnose people who need treatment. The origin is key in knowing how this developed to being with. Because it's not entirely proven either way, it's important to note that a person's environment and or upbringing is just one hypothesized reason for the cause. Brain pathology and genetics play a crucial role as well. (Hence, a chemical imbalance) A person's seratonin level is largely related to to how their emotions unveil. That's why many individuals suffer from one or more disorders. If you notice, many have the same signs but it's the main aspects that distinquish between them. People with Bpd are manipulative because deep down they desire the need to feel and be loved. I don't think that's a crime. It's one part of the unfortunate affliction of having it. I feel it's irresponsible to not seek treatment because a person who suffers from it never learns to live with it. That would be a condition like diabetes that is manageable. Unless you try and help it, it is never okay and your life will always be an emotional rollercoaster and unstable ultimately.

@sweetcheeks, I am sorry you failed in your research but just as BPD patients, you have black and white thinking. Just because wiki (or wherever your mind or brain originated that thought) states that the causes could be due to neglect and abuse isn't always the case. Please try and gather everything all your ideas rationally before you try and debate or debunk someones opinion. It can most definitely be due and overbearing mother. If you can't understand that, you obviously wasted a year of your life and don't truly understand the disorder or psychology in general.

However, smothering love or unrealistic expectations from a parent can be a form of abuse. But I'm just responsding to your response and not getting too much into specifics.

Lol anyone who says something either is or isn't a certain way is pretty full of themselves and may or may not lean toward tendencies of some or the other that you're discussing in this thread x) I think you all had some valid points, some more than others, but anyway people please put your energy elsewhere geeze. I know I'm 8 years late lol but had to say something if nothing else for other potential readers.

@Oats2005<br /> I liked your description of BPD.