Red Flag

Heres my thoughts for what this means... its now 1:12am. This seems like a very political song, if its a sign of what the whole next album is gonna be it's going to be the 2nd album i really buy,,, after buying one named "Billy Talent".

Cast off the crutch that kills the pain ---This probably means to remove the fake illusions people receive that blinds them from the truth

the red flag waving never meant the same ---I needed help for this so i quoted what i found on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag "... "waving a red flag" is a euphemism for incitement [...] red is the "color of defiance" [...]" The kids of tommorow don't need today ---The kids of tomorrow are "your" future children

when they live in the sins of yesterday ---They wont be able to start fresh and will be forced to live from "our" mistakes. For example, the polluting of the air, destroying the ocean beds, overcutting of trees, etc.

(end chorus) -- Not real lyrics :p j/k

Well I've never seen us act like this Our only hope is the minds of kids And they'll show us a thing or two ---This whole paragraph basically says that hopefully they ("our kids") wont be like us and will be more concienscious (i'm french canadian so forgive my spelling) and not follow in our footsteps of war and destruction.

Our only weapons are the guns of youth ---Meaning most people cant see whats happening so "our" only chance is "our" children.

It's only time before they tighten the noose ---Meaning "we" will have to stop our excesses and the noose in this probably presents the liberties "we" take in regards to nature and violence. The only question is how long will it take before that is done.

And then the hunt will be on for you ---"we" will be the ones blamed for "their" conditions of life.

We don't need them ---My favorite line - This means we should be the ones taking action and change the ways our "elders" are leading us into.

(chorus) --- I have a spanking fetish, feel free to add me to ur msn by clicking on my profile. No males plz, i'm straight.

Like the smallest bee packs a sting ---Although bees are small they can still hurt, so can the youth. (which is a minority in north america due to declining birth rates)

Like the pawn checkmates a king ---Being a chess player myself, i could speak about this a lot. In chess, pawns often decide the outcome of the game, even though every other piece is "stronger", but by mating the king, you win, no matter the strength of the other pieces left on the board. So the meaning of this is that if you attack the source of the problem, you can fix it. (here's a quote: "Chess is like life" - Boris Spassky -> Do your own research on the subject if u wish)

We'll attack at the crack of dawn ---This probably meaning that when it's time, the attack will be relentless.

Build a ladder if there's a wall ---This means that there will be obstacles that will need to be crossed and to just overcome them.

Don't be afraid to slip and fall ---This means that you will make mistakes too, so dont be afraid to make them so that way, if u do, you can always correct them. Could also mean to just not show ur scared.

Speak for yourself or they'll speak for you ---This is about the politicians, if you dont stand up for what u want, theyll do what they want. A good example of standing up for urself would be the college/university student strike that took place in 2005 in the province of quebec over a 103million dollar cut the government was wanting to do in the "financial help for students" system.

We don't need them ---Deja-vu... im pretty sure i saw this before, read up.

(chorus) --Again, go up to the very top if u forgot what i think the chorus meant, and make a new post to share ur ideas.

Light a fire There'll be water ---Fires will be extinguished. Like a jury Needs a liar ---Jury's decide who lies based on evidence presented. Like a riot Turning over ---People rioting need to think out their things if they want to win. Turning over here is used in the sense of "thinking carefully" or in the sense of "rotating around a center" where in that sense, it would mean the riot needs to have a centre point (a focus point).

Like a madman Needs a martyr ---Without the martyr, hes not a madman yet

We don't need them (x8 ) --Why not?

(chorusx5) --I'm actually looking up stuff to write this whole thing... its 1:36 am atm.

We don't need them (x17) --We do, if not for them, how could we know the problems that need fixing. And we will need the youth in the future too, today's society is a bunch of pussies.

Ok thats it no more of this!

RED FLAG=SOCIALISM. Communism is a red flag with gold. Anarchy is black (unless a sub branch then it is split diagonally say red and black for anarcho-syndicalism which is socialism/anarchy)

The red flag is usually a union reference. See Jim Connell's song "The Red Flag" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_RedFlag(song) "The Red Flag is a protest song associated with left-wing politics, in particular with socialism." (from the above link on Jim Connell's song)

What exactly this song is about I can not tell you. But I'm rather sure its not about kids fighting parents and I'm positive it's not about anarchy.

***After watching the music video and paying hella close attention to the lyrics I think it may be about the empowerment of youth in the social movement. "the red flag waving never ment the same" to me shows that the middle aged protesters of the past have grown old and settled in and the radical social movement of the past is now in the hands of the children. Right in the beginning of the song he starts with:

"Well I've never seen us act like this Our only hope is the minds of kids And they'll show us a thing or two"

Kids have never been the bearers of the red flag but now with "idles" like Che Guevara the youth of today are becoming more informed and more radicale at a younger and younger age. And of course all that about re writing history and such.

on second look, i think the whole song is about how like, we need to do something...cast off the crutch that kills the pain, i guess kinda like...take off the blindfold so you can see what's going on around you, the tighten the noose part...like...the red flag waving is telling us all to get up and do something about it before they completely tighten the noose around us....cuz the youth is what society is built on...it's saying, ya...kids can make a difference...like the PAWN checkmates the king, well i mean the pawn can win the game, even though it's the lowest person, and the smallest bee, although small, can still kill if you're allergic, and i think the whole song is just screaming anarchy! the WE DONT NEED THEM may be talking about the adults or the government, could be kinda an anarchist revolution or maybe even peter panish :P....light the fires to the revolution....the whole sequence there like a madman needs a martyr, etc. like a lawyer, needs a liar....it's saying THEY NEED US, but we don't need them.... ahh...sorry for rambling and the multiple posts.....:P...shoulda made one big one.....

happy thinking! :P lol

alright, on the CD version, Billy Talent took out everyones favorite/most important meaningful line "we dont kneed them". so therfore, pretty much everyone that made reference to it.... was WRONG. what they changed it too was

"The Red Flag never meant the same, no The Red Flag never meant the same"

the guitar is still the exact same tho.

We need to stop living in ignorance. The red flag was a symbol of anarchism, though it can mean really anything depending on the person from communism to socialism to aggression. Really its just another song saying that we need to rise up against the gov't and fight for our rights.

I could be way off in my interpretation but this is what I get out of it.

Well dissecting the song, I find that the song is very anti-goverment and anarchist in a since. However, I do not believe the "red flag waving" is specifically referring to anarchism. If this were the case then he could have just as easily chose black. I agree with most of the mainstream interpretations of the song but with some slight altercations. I believe he is referring to a specific type of communism known as anarcho-communism or libertarian communism.

"red flag waving never meant the same".

• Means that all currently implemented forms of communism have failed because, specifically, of governments but this time it is different, "never meant the same".

"we don't need them"

• I disagree with the interpretation that he is referring to our elders/ancestors. I think Billy is talking about government in general, we don't need government control and corruption. Hence, anarcho-communism.

"Like a jury Needs a liar"

• I believe he is referring to government corruption in general whether it be capitalist or the failed implementations of communism.

"The kids of tomorrow don't need today when they live in the sins of yesterday"

• Could be referring to the problems that greed and capitalism have caused for society. Kids of today have to live in these sins.

This is what it means to me anyways.

This isnt communism its about kids speaking their minds "Smallest be packes a sting" is a small kid with a large mind "cast off the cast that kills the pain" even though its easier to stay quiet speaking your mind will make it better "dont be afraid you'll slip and fall " dont be afraid of being yelled at or punished because " our strongest wepons are the guns of youth" the red flag is a kids mind and when it says we dont need them its talking about the older generation

i was just reading the lyrics while listening to the song an i had a sudden realization. i thought i would share it so i could hear other opinions.

i think the song is abouth how the youth always is the first to be sendt into war. The red flag makes me think about how the youth rallies around symbols (patriotism, ideologies, religion etc...) "Our only weapons are the guns of youth It's only time before they tighten the noose And then the hunt will be on for you" The youth is our best weapon and you will be next when they get killed off. Im thinking WW2 and how the armys standards were lowered as the young soldiers got killed in the thousands.

"Cast off the crutch that kills the pain The red flag waving never meant the same The kids of tomorrow don't need today When they live in the sins of yesterday" Even though you have been wounded you have to swallow the pain and return to the front. The flag you waved so proudly will never mean the same after you have seen the horrors of war. And the kids will have trouble living today because of the sins they committed/vitnessed in the war.

"Speak for yourself or they'll speak for you" You have to speak for yourself or risk being dragged into the fanaticism of others.

"Like a fire Don't need water Like a jury Needs a liar Like a riot Don't need order Like a madman Needs a martyr

We don't need them" We often forgett how important our youth is and what they are saying here is that we dont need our youth in the same way we dont need water for our fires, the same way that we need liars in our jury, the same way we dont need order in a riot and the same way a madman needs a martyr.

This all makes a lot of sense to me but id love to hear a second opinion. PS. sorry for any bad writing, english is my second language

these lyrics are SOOO wrong....it makes no sense....who INVENTED the word lordem....it really doesn't make sense at all

(chorusx2) Cast off the crutch that kills the pain the red flag waving never meant the same The kids of tommorow don't need today when they live in the sins of yesterday (end chorus)

Well I've never seen us act like this Our only hope is the minds of kids And they'll show us a thing or two

Our only weapons are the guns of youth It's only time before they tighten the noose And then the hunt will be on for you

We don't need them

(chorus)

Like the smallest bee packs a sting Like the pawn checkmates a king We'll attack at the crack of dawn

Build a ladder if there's a wall Don't be afraid to slip and fall Speak for yourself or they'll speak for you

We don't need them

(chorus)

Light a fire There'll be water Like a jury Needs a liar Like a riot Turning over Like a madman Needs a martyr

We don't need them (x8 )

(chorusx5)

We don't need them (x17)