Siouxsie and the Banshees

Israel

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Israel Lyrics

Little orphans in the snow
With nowhere to call a home
Start their singing
Singing

Waiting through the summertime
To thaw your hearts in wintertime
That's why they're singing
Singing

Waiting for a sign
To turn blood into wine
The sweet taste in your mouth
Turned bitter in its glass

Israel
In Israel
Israel
In Israel

Shattered fragments of the past
Meet in veins of the stained glass
Like the lifeline
In your palm

Red and green reflects the scene
Of a long forgotten dream
There were princes
And there were kings

Now hidden in disguise
Cheap wrappings of lies
Keep your heart alive
With a song from inside

Even though we're all alone
We are never on our own
When we're singing
Singing

Hohhhh
Hohhhh

There's a man who's looking in
And he smiles a toothless grin
Because he's singing
Singing

See some people shine with glee
But their song is jealousy
Their hate is clanging
Maddening

In Israel
Will they sing Happy Noel?
In Israel
In Israel

Israel
In Israel
In Israel
Will they sing Happy Noel?

Submitted by

cylon_0_0 On Apr 09, 2005

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by JJKelsall

12y ago

SIOUXSIE: "No it's not about religion as such, it’s more general. A disillusioned person, or whole race who’ve ceased to understand or believe in what they held to be the truth. It tries to put across, you shouldn’t cover what you feel inside by teaching or attitudes imposed on you. It emphasises the strength of the individual." Source: Sounds 28/02/81.

So basically it is about questioning your beliefs and don't just follow things that are forced on you by authority.

Song Meaning

+10

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by skunkweed 12y ago

i.e. zionism.

by aparatchik 10y ago

@skunkweed Zionism is the movement for Jewish independence, as much a "belief" as the movement for Japanese or American independence. That said, the restoration of David's kingdom is intrinsic part of the Jewish religion.

by Saffronsugar 4m ago

@JJKelsall I see people are talking about Zionism. but do most of the images take place in Israel? Orphans singing in the snow? Snow in Israel is incredibly rare. The first chorus makes me think of children singing in cold northern climates around Christmas time. There is a line “do they sing happy Noel?” Noel means Christmas time and Christmas is not widely celebrated in Jerusalem either.

by smendler

15y ago

Red and green reflects the scene

A nice trope -- red and green being both the traditional Christmas colors and two of the national colors of the Palestinians.

Song Meaning

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by NomadMonad 14y ago

This is a brilliant observation. I never thought of the Palestinian connection. I am happy to find other people who ponder this song as much as I have.

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by aparatchik 10y ago

@smendler "national colours" of the Arab Revolt created in WWI by Sir Mark Sykes and adopted in whole or in part by most Arab states.

by SpikeHyzer 4y ago

@smendler You misinterpret by taking it out of context. The next line is about a much earlier time of primitive princes and kings. Christmas was not celebrated until the 4th century. The Palestinian flag not created until 1964. The more primal interpretation of the colors is that green represents Nature, and the red spattered upon it is the blood of the people and animals who were being forced into the slavery of agriculture for meat production (hence why the dream of a garden of eden is long forgotten, tainted by the first civilization that would oppress society with laws, patriarchy, and forcing...

by Saffronsugar 4m ago

@smendler I see what spike is saying, but I think they are a little off. I don’t know why they think it’s pre-4th century?! Just because they mentioned princes and kings? Man, there are still princes and kings. There is a mention of ancient kings, but there is also the line “do they sing happy Noel?” Noel means Christmas. The image of orphans singing in the snow does imply a northern climate. Snow in Israel does occur, but in frequently

by Mazort

16y ago

The song reminds us of the violent, hateful nature of contemporary Israel, the allusions to blood, despair, a religious philosophy fragmented and it's continuous decay in a world of reason where Israeli society is unsustainable under a Zionist movement fascinated with ethnic cleansing and annihilation of it's neighbours.

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by Adr10723 15y ago

Israel does not wage wars of aggression. The situation of the Palestinians is self-made. The have rejected and spurned every opportunity to make peace. The Arabs will not accept a Jewish country on "Arab" lands and will fight with any means necessary to accomplish that goal of eliminating Israel. This is why they send their children as suicide bombers. What kind of culture is that of the Arabs??

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by perko 15y ago

The situation of the Palestinians is not self-made. The "War of Independence" in 1948 saw 1,380,000 Palestinians driven off their land by the Israeli army in an act of ethnic cleansing (Tanya Reinhart, 2002).

Israel does wage wars of aggression. E.g. The 1967 invasion and occupation of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights + The 1982 invasion of Lebanon which left 11,000 people dead (Ibid).

The vast majority of Palestinians actually will accept a Jewish country on "Arab" lands. A survey by the Bir Zeit Uni in 2002 found that "77% of Palestinians believe both Palestinians and Israelis...

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by jolsfa123 15y ago

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Arabs of that territory were told by the Arab armies that if they left their land, the Jews would be "pushed into the sea" and all of the land would be restored to Arab hands.

67 is hardly an act of aggression when you consider that Jordan, Syria, and Egypt were all about to attack. I suppose aggression is what it's called when Israel wins wars by large margins. Secondly, way before 67 the nations of Egypt and Jordan occupied the Gaza Strip and West Bank, respectively, without so much as a...

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by perko 15y ago

Can I have some evidence for the first claim you made. I don't understand what event you are referring to and it does not seem like a logical thing for "the Arab armies" to tell the civilian population to LEAVE if their goal was to push the Jews into the sea.

Jordan, Syria and Egypt were not about to attack Israel in 67. The war was a "preemtive strike" to demonstrate Israel's military capability to America and to secure resourcouces in the middle east by destroying secular Arab nationalism, particularly Egyptian nationalism led by Nasser. Preemtive wars are...

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by mbarrett90 11y ago

To the OP - that was very much my reaction to the lyrics. The false show of joy depicted is reminiscent of fascism in general, and to me that expresses the notion that Israel has become the very demon it was victimized by. In a more personal dimension, it's very accessible. The cycle of victim-to-oppressor is sort of a universal theme that might be found in history anywhere from a Greek tragedy to a Japanese existential film.

To NomadMonad - First of all, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around a neo-conservative speculating on the musings of Siouxsie...

To the OP - that was very much my reaction to the lyrics. The false show of joy depicted is reminiscent of fascism in general, and to me that expresses the notion that Israel has become the very demon it was victimized by. In a more personal dimension, it's very accessible. The cycle of victim-to-oppressor  is sort of a universal theme that might be found in history anywhere from a Greek tragedy to a Japanese existential film.

To NomadMonad - First of all, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around a neo-conservative speculating on the musings of Siouxsie and the Banshees. Did you come here looking for a debate, or do you actually listen to their music? I digress. I don't know what country or religion you think you belong to, and I don't fully understand what Zionism means to you. But I believe that history and public opinion have evidenced that the current state of Israel, from the first military occupation to the now prison-state it's become, are a true reflection of the collective will of the Jewish people. And I don't say this without having some precedence - I actively practiced Judaism and associated with Jewish people from the ages of 19 to 21, before returning to my more familiar Buddhist upbringing, and I gained a lot of perspective on the Hebrew concept of faith. And honestly, while there were plenty of Jews I met who were very politically minded and pro-Israel, the majority of Jews whom I met told me something that I reflexively believed from the beginning: according to their prophecies, God had promised to restore Israel to them at a future time. Many Jews are still waiting for that to happen. Because it wasn't God who delivered the Jews back to Israel (where, by the way, many Jews were already living alongside Muslims with relative neighborliness), was it? The motion to create the current state of Israel was driven by bankers, even though the Anti-Defamation League assures us that Prescott Bush was NOT investing in Nazi Germany's military during WWII.

Reason:

by C60wasmyformat 2y ago

@Mazort "...the now prison-state it's become, are a true reflection of the collective will of the Jewish people."

I think we should be wary of anyone attributing "collective will" to whole populations unless it is for positive, uncontentious rhetorical purposes (e.g., "The people of Utopiland have, through their collective will, successfully overcome the challenges of banana fever".) To say a sizeable population, defined by their religion, has a "collective will" to do something you believe is evil verges on racism. You claim to be a Buddhist -are you part of the "collective will" to murder, rape and expel Rohingya...

@[Mazort:45881] 
 "...the now prison-state it's become, are a true reflection of the collective will of the Jewish people."

I think we should be wary of anyone attributing "collective will" to whole populations unless it is for positive, uncontentious rhetorical purposes (e.g., "The people of Utopiland have, through their collective will, successfully overcome the challenges of banana fever".)
      To say a sizeable population, defined by their religion, has a "collective will" to do something you believe is evil verges on racism. You claim to be a Buddhist -are you part of the "collective will" to murder, rape and expel Rohingya people?
     
" The motion to create the current state of Israel was driven by bankers..."

...actually, it was driven by the will of many Jewish people to establish their own state post-World War 2, supported by massive popular support in Western Europe, the USA and allied nations. And the policy of the UK, then occupying Palestine, to withdraw. The USA and USSR both voted to establish Israel, the UK abstained.

For historical reasons that are very well understood a small minority of Jewish people became successfully established in banking. The use of 'bankers' as a synonym for 'Jews', the allegation that Jewish people somehow control or disproportionately influence the wider banking system, or that "the banks" collectively conspire to favour some peoples over others (disregarding the fact that banks are in competition with each other, and there are many banks, both state-owned and privately owned, from many nations), are crude, easily falsified racist (and populist) tropes that long pre-date the founding of the state of Israel. Much used by the Nazis.

I don't care about your interpretation of Siouxsie and the Banshees' lyrics. And I'm not commenting on Israeli-Palestinian relations, or the merits or otherwise of any religion.

I just hate racism, and I believe you are parroting racist beliefs.

Reason:

by Peter-Art

10y ago

i think the song is about refugees, people who once fled, raised a state where given broken dreams. ( turned his blood into wine, (old history), but later the (current time) the wine turned bitter in the glass in this new "promised" land. People are still enslaved by political false dreams.. but there is an old men walking bye, he has no tooth left, there is something still there of freedom most of us dont see. After that it is wondering happy noel.. do people still understand what freedom means.

Israel is a best portrait for this, but there are many places like it, where people flee and try to find something better, and are given "new dreams" to work hard pay rent

My Interpretation

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by corey10649

3y ago

Not being a historian at all, I love the group, saw them in San Francisco back in the day (The Warfield?) The song always perplexed me, gave me things to think about. On one hand I felt it was pro Israel, the color reference reminded me of the U2 song (War?). It seems to me a song of encouragement to any and all oppressed people, a song of joy and sadness. Enjoying all the comments ✌????

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by Saffronsugar

4m ago

So, I am not COMPLETELY sure what this song is about, BUT I am commenting because most people here don’t seem to either and, at least, I have very good insight into some of the religious imagery here, because of my profession.

Siouxsie, herself, said it is not just about religion. She went on to say it’s about disillusionment, seeing the suffering that so many are blind to. Seeing the hypocrisy in the world and trying to find hope within it. I am paraphrasing.

I think Israel symbolises a broken promised land. A place for peace, that has brought anything but! It is not a Zionist song. In fact, most of the images are Christian. Hear me out, “do they sing happy Noel?“ Noel means Christmas. End of. It comes from the Old French word for Christmas, Noël, which comes from the Latin natalis, meaning birth (birth of Christ). Orphans singing in the snow. OK, it occasionally snows in the north of Israel, but very rarely. This line makes me think of groups like Montreal Accueil Bonneau Choir and the World Orphan Choir (and basically, Victorian England). Orphans singing at Christmas time to raise money.

The line “turn blood into wine” is about turning pain into something good. And it also plays on the Roman Catholic belief of transubstantiation in which wine is turned into the blood of Christ. Which I think is very clever but, unfortunately, goes over a lot of peoples heads.

Red and green are the colours of Christmas, but also the colours of the Palestinian flag as some have pointed out. She talks about how it has been like this since ancient times. There is always been suffering, there has always been need, there has always been the search for joy and peace.

The line, “See some people shine with glee, but their song is jealousy.Their hate is clanging. Maddening” it’s about the phoniness that can surround the holiday season. Greed, indifference to suffering and selfishness are not far beneath the good cheer surface. Their coldness and cruelty is painful to witness. Why can’t these hypocrites see?

The lyrics talk about how we are all together if we are singing. Singing in our hearts and not letting all of the evil, corruption and sadness drag us down. We are all trying to survive, many people are struggling to survive. We all hope for the promised land, but is there such a thing? Is there an answer? We can only keep our hearts open and hope and keep singing.

That’s what I get out of it anyway.

[Edit: I edited for spelling mistakes]

Song Meaning

Positive

Subjective

Hope

Religion

Christmas

Unity

Struggle

Hope

So, I am not COMPLETELY sure what this song is about,  BUT I am commenting because most people here don’t seem to either and, at least, I have very good insight into some of the religious imagery here, because of my profession.

I think Israel symbolises a broken promised land. A place for peace, that has brought anything but!  It is not a Zionist song. In fact, most of the images are Christian. Hear me out, “do they sing happy Noel?“ Noel means Christmas. End of. It comes from the Old French word for Christmas, Noël, which comes from the Latin natalis, meaning birth (birth of Christ). 
Orphans singing in the snow. OK, it occasionally snows in the north of Israel, but very rarely. This line makes me think of groups like Montreal Accueil Bonneau Choir and the World Orphan Choir (and basically, Victorian England). Orphans singing at Christmas time to raise money.

The line “turn blood into wine” is about turning pain into something good. And it also plays on the Roman Catholic belief of transubstantiation in which wine is turned into the blood of Christ. 
Which I think is very clever but, unfortunately, goes over a lot of peoples heads.

Red and green are the colours of Christmas, but also the colours of the Palestinian flag as some have pointed out. 
She talks about how it has been like this since ancient times. There is always been suffering, there has always been need, there has always been the search for joy and peace.

The lyrics talk about how we are all together if we are singing. Singing in our hearts and not letting all of the evil, corruption and sadness drag us down. We are all trying to survive, many people are struggling to survive. We all hope for the promised land, but is there such a thing?
Is there an answer? We can only keep our hearts open and hope and keep singing.

That’s what I get out of it anyway.

Reason:

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by Sozluk

18y ago

The more I study the lyrics the more it suggests it really does have something to do with the history and founding of (contemporary)Israel

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by jvargas 10m ago

👍, Its a Bohemian battle cry to Israelites heart on truth in front of them.

by Meiriona

17y ago

Israel is where it all began, you know. And 'Happy Noel' screams Christmas to me. The whole lyrics, it evokes this sense of happiness because, like it says, they're singing, not literally singing per se, but just celebrating life.

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by FakeLoveRemedy

17y ago

Don't know what it's about, but I love Siouxsie's voice and I just wanted to comment on how well-written this piece is, and I don't know how big they were in the 80's, during their reign, but as far as 80's music goes, as far as any ALT band goes, they are awesome and should get more airtime.

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by Adr10723

15y ago

As follows:

Little orphans in the snow With nowhere to call a home Start their singing

This is the orphaned children after the Holocaust who went to Israel.

Waiting through the summertime To thaw your hearts in wintertime That's why they're singing...

This is European holiday makers visiting Israel during winter months.

Waiting for a sign to turn blood into wine The sweet taste in your mouth--turned bitter in its glass Israel...in Israel

As Israel has become successful and has survives the wars waged against her, jealousy and resentment emerge.

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by perko 15y ago

Sorry, don't mean to be on your back again but I think you missed some of the nuances of the lyrics which make it such a great song. You are totally correct about the first part being about Jewish children orphaned by the Holocaust. I think this part really evokes sympathy for the Jewish people and gives hope about the establishment of a place where they can sing and call home. The Jewish people will "turn blood into wine"; they will overcome the violence done to them and celebrate the future.

However, I interpreted the following lines differently....

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However, I interpreted the following lines differently. To me the sense of hope and healing quickly changes in the lines: "The sweet taste in your mouth--turned bitter in its glass". If the song was about Israel surviving and being successful it would have been the other way around, from bitter to sweet, but its not.

The reason for this, I think, comes through in later lines and has to do with the situation of the Palestinians:

Red and green reflects the scene
Of a long forgotten dream
There were princes and there were kings
Now hidden in disguise--cheap wrappings of lies

Red and green are Palestinian colors. I think this stanza is a reference to the way that the past has been manipulated in Israel to neglect the histories of the Palestinians for political gain.

The toothless man at the end is one of the children from the start, but his song has become full of "jealousy". The hope from the start has degenerated completely: "Their hate is clanging--maddening". The Palestinians are now as hated and homeless as the Jews once were.

She ends up asking "In Israel will they sing Happy Noel", which suggests that peace and happiness is possible in the future, but it is only a distant prospect, just a song that hasn't been sung yet.

Reason:

by antioch 15y ago

Uh...knowing Siouxsie, happy noel does not refer to happiness and peace in the future.

"In Isreal will they sing happy noel" most likely refers to christianity/book of revelation..in the book of revelation, jesus returns to earth...and specifically jerusalem...and the jews must either "come to jesus" or go to hell (I resist saying "convert" because revelation was allegedly written prior to christianity coming into existience). of course, this is being stated in a sardonic sense, mocking all parties involved in religious nonsense (christian, muslim, jew). but that particular phrase probably refers to this revelation of st john scenario....

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by NomadMonad 14y ago

I agree with you Adr10723 about the orphaned children - but on a larger scale it is ALL of the surviving European Jews who realized they had no home in Europe after WWII and therefore returned to Israel in 1948. I don't agree with all of Perko's pro-Palestinian sentiments, but his comments have made me see aspects of the lyrics in a radically new way. The lines you cite [The sweet taste...turned bitter in its glass]always remind me of these lines in Revelation Ch.10: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the...

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