So this has been.my favorite song of OTEP's since it came out in 2004, and I always thought it was a song about a child's narrative of suffering in an abusive Christian home. But now that I am revisiting the lyrics, I am seeing something totally new.
This song could be gospel of John but from the perspective of Jesus.
Jesus was NOT having a good time up to and during the crucifixion. Everyone in the known world at the time looked to him with fear, admiration or disgust and he was constantly being asked questions. He spoke in "verses, prophesies and curses". He had made an enemy of the state, and believed the world was increasingly wicked and fallen from grace, or that he was in the "mouth of madness".
The spine of atlas is the structure that allows the titan to hold the world up. Jesus challenged the state and in doing so became a celebrated resistance figure. It also made him public enemy #1.
All of this happened simply because he was doing his thing, not because of any agenda he had or strategy.
And then he gets scourged (storm of thorns)
There are some plot holes here but I think it's an interesting interpretation.
It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here
And I'm most obliged to you for making it clear
That I'm not here.
And I never knew the moon could be so big
And I never knew the moon could be so blue
And I'm grateful that you threw away my old shoes
And brought me here instead dressed in red
And I'm wondering who could be writing this song.
I don't care if the sun don't shine
And I don't care if nothing is mine
And I don't care if I'm nervous with you
I'll do my loving in the winter.
And the sea isn't green
And I love the queen
And what exactly is a dream
And what exactly is a joke.
And I'm most obliged to you for making it clear
That I'm not here.
And I never knew the moon could be so big
And I never knew the moon could be so blue
And I'm grateful that you threw away my old shoes
And brought me here instead dressed in red
And I'm wondering who could be writing this song.
I don't care if the sun don't shine
And I don't care if nothing is mine
And I don't care if I'm nervous with you
I'll do my loving in the winter.
And the sea isn't green
And I love the queen
And what exactly is a dream
And what exactly is a joke.
Lyrics submitted by Demau Senae, edited by karpouzi
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I agree it is intensely sad because it's his cry for help that his friends totally ignored.
I'm pretty sure it is 'room' - in reference to the imprisoning isolation and seclution the band aboned him too. It's blue because he's still & frozen in time - as oppossed to sea isn't green (growing / alive).
Syd was totally sane, the apparent insanity was a mockery of other people assuming he was mad - it got real with the mis-PRESCRIBED mandrax & his fustration. "The tune they play is an ask confide" - but they never did, they just decided about him. Hence 'I wonder who could be writing this song' is a sarcastic dig directly at the culprits - Floyd (clowns), who loved to tell everyone how mad he was everytime they were promoting a song, 'he's over there but he's not really there. That makes us cool so please buy our hat'.
Floyd was his dream - the backing band took over because they failed 'to get it'. The joke is his mockery of them - him overplaying Carry On style what they had been so ignorant & limited to assume. And then they left him with it, forever. What a great bunk of guys, crying all the way to the bank.
it is not "room" it is MOON .Take a look to the video ,you can see his lips saying moon not room
It is definitely moon, not room. I presume moon is a reference to madness
@Black&GreenAchilles A lot of assumptions here. And it's not "the tune they play is in ask confide", it's "the tune they play is in us confide".
The lyric "I never knew the moon could be so blue" parallels the later line that "the sea isn't green." There's also a lot of symbolism to be found in the image of the moon. Both the moon and the sea are associated with madness, as well as mystery, the feminine and other-worldliness. It is also a clever play on the idea of a blue moon, and there are actually parallels in the lyrics with the lyrics of the old popular standard Blue Moon. A blue moon is a rare kind of extra full moon, hence "once in a blue moon" but to be blue is to be sad, like having the blues. In the old standard, the moon is blue when the singer was "without a dream in my heart/ without a love of my own." <br /> <br /> Also, what you are saying of madness and mockery reminds me of Hamlet. For anyone who is unfamiliar with the play, the character Hamlet pretends to be mad. By pretending to be mad and using other's perception of him as mad, he is able to say things he could not say otherwise, often mocking the other characters in cutting, often profound ways, straight to their faces, and he is able to act in ways that would be unnacceptable because people dismiss his words and actions as meaningless. Some people debate though whether Hamlet might actually indeed be mad in the play. I'm actually reading the play for the first time now and haven't finished yet, but if this stuff is interesting to you, then I'd recommend it. I can't help but recognize many parallels between Barrett and Hamlet. They both even reference clowns a lot! In particular, there's a very famous scene in Hamlet involving a clown, and Hamlet's feelings about him. <br /> <br /> Also, if I can make a kind of bold assertion, both Hamlet and Barrett turn away from women and the possibility of love. Psychoanalytic critiques of Hamlet often emphasize that Hamlet, after he is "mad," rejects the love of Ophelia while turning all his attention to his mother. Not romantically of course, at least not overtly, but this fits the Freudian model. Syd too turned away from the world and relationships, besides his family. Eventually he moved back in with his mother. Both Hamlet and Syd also have bitter and biting criticisms to make about those around them and the world at large though. Both are very smart and sensitive souls. The stories of both are tragic too. I'm going to rewrite this for a general comment here too.
@brainticket very well observed and explained! It is becoming clearer to me now. It's debatable whether he did have mental health issues with periods of lucidity or if it was largely an act. I'd say largely but not purely.<br /> Though, as well as it being to say what he could not otherwise say, I also think he wanted to prove to himself who these friends of his really were deep down before he went any further on this journey to world fame with them all. And yes, sadly he got his answer. He just had so much more depth than the rest & I believe he wanted to teach them about humanity because all the fame & fortune was not an attraction for him at all, it was just too inauthentic a world for him to live in. The time he stood on stage and just stared whist de stringing his guitar one by one, I believe he did that just to show that he could do anything and the crowd would love it. The appreciation for his art had been lost by that point & it was just madness by then. Commercialism and crazy obsessiveness, no, he wasn't about that. It would be like selling his soul. So he stayed true to himself & off he went, leaving them plenty to think about. The footage of them singing jugband blues with him as front man & the rest just playing along is haunting & very, very sad. <br /> You can't help but be moved by it, he was such a gentle soul.<br /> R.I.P Syd
@brainticket having said that, they were only kids, they couldn't fully understand. Plus they were already well on the way to living the dream
@iThinkmaybe sorry my last 2 posts were meant for you but sent them to @brainticket by mistake. I can't be bothered to type it all out again! But thank you for such insight! Great stuff!
"Syd didn't "become" insane, and he didn't "lose his mind." He was always insane and he never had a "mind" as people like to call it." -- steve82c
I think insanity could be described as a twisted or illusionary sense of reality, and interpreting events in one's life through distorted glasses.
Anyone who reads Syd Barret lyrics and truly understand them must be able to see the hypocrisy in calling him 'insane'. The problem for us is his perception of reality is beyond what any of us could imagine. Thus, he was "a genius" (Mooey).
Again, it was his deviation from the masses of society, and his ultra-clear view of everything, something so alien to the average person, that set him apart. Our inability to understand things on his level does not make him insane.
However, some will say "ohh, but he was on so many drugs that there is no way you're right." This is not the case. It was the drugs that made Syd descend to the breakdown because of societal pressure, and perhaps because he was so different, and so ingenious as compared to everyone else.
He was a genius with vision that not many can begin to comprehend. His lyrics are indicative of clear thought at its greatest height.
"And what exactly is a dream?"
wow thats deep, i digg it tho it made sense, also who are we to call him insane? do any of us really know what sanity is?
@floydism He did indeed become "insane", as you put it. He showed no signs of mental instability until the pressure (and drugs, etc) got to him during his time with the Floyd. There was then a clear mental breakdown. To use the word "insane" is pejorative and stigmatising. Someone is not "insane" - they suffer from a mental illness, usually a psychotic illness such as schizophrenia. The person is still there alongside the illness.
Syd is not a damn sanitarium, dumbass. He is living home avoiding people like you. :)
@xJadex love it! It's true! ..well it was true before he sadly passed away but yes, the world was too much for him. I get it, I really do :(
I think people are really romanticizing Syd's life way too much. I think he was a young man searching for his identity and finding that he was being rewarded for being as weird as possible. And that people were responding to him as an icon and not as a human.
It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear That I'm not here.
I think that line is a reference to the band. He knew that he was on the way out. He's saying it is nice that people are being considerate of his condition, and that he appreciates knowing that he is on the way out. This was Syd's goodbye tune, after all.
It could also refer to his relationship with the fans, that they applaud his far-out image while not seeing the real Syd (Roger) underneath.
And I never knew the moon could be so big And I never knew the moon could be so blue
I'm pretty sure that is "moon" in both lines. There is the symmetry between the lines, for one thing. And a "blue moon" is the second full moon in the same month. It occurs every 2.5 years or so. I imagine Syd lonely and watching the moon, as people do sometimes.
And I'm grateful that you threw away my old shoes And brought me here instead dressed in red
I seem to remember a story about Syd's shoes. Something about how they had to tape them up to keep them on. And later on they were replaced by the Gohill's boots, of course. And dressed in red is very flashy, like his external image had become.
And I'm wondering who could be writing this song.
So here we have Syd who has become an icon, driven by fans to drop too much acid and act bizarre. He's trying to figure out which parts are the real Syd (Roger) and which parts are just an act.
I don't care if the sun don't shine And I don't care if nothing is mine And I don't care if I'm nervous with you I'll do my loving in the winter.
I hear this as the real Syd breaking out for a moment.
And the sea isn't green And I love the queen And what exactly is a dream And what exactly is a joke.
I think this last part is partly wordplay. But I also think is says that in the midst of all the drugs and fame and insanity, he is wondering what is real.
Lastly, I think that Syd's mental condition was probably way overplayed by the media. Still, it is clear that he was having problems and was not able to keep it together. He is not in a sanitarium, though he did see several psychiatrists. He went to live with his mother, produced a few more records, then became reclusive, preferring to paint rather than to make music.
I think the song is Syd's way of actually saying why he's acting the way he is. He feels trapped by the musical industry the throwing away of the old shoes and being dressed in red part I think symbolizes that the record industry the fame and all that was making him into something he didn't like. At the same time he really doesnt care about anything anymore he just wants to take a break from everything. then the ending lyrics is kinda like Syd saying that he's gone numb
I dont know this all just came to me now, comments?
I find it interesting how many people seem to completely misinterpret this song as being about Syd losing control of his mind, when in reality the whole thing was his own thinly veiled jab at the rest of the Floyd. It's true that Syd was le...tting go of his grip on reality at this point and had completely retreated as a performer, but as far as he was concerned the lyrics were meant to sarcastically call the people around him out on their shit. He felt the constant back biting and accusations about his sanity were demeaning and unwarranted, which is what this song is really about.
He sings about how "considerate" it is of the people in question to think of him as being present, while they simultaneously mention him and his supposed mental vacantness at any given opportunity for the sake of publicity. He then "thanks" them for "throwing away his old shoes" (taking away his authority in the band) and "bringing him here dressed in red" (as a martyr). Finally he wraps it up nicely with "and I wonder who could be writing this song?" It's pure sarcasm. I'm not saying he wasn't completely losing it at this point, but it's pretty clear to me what the song was actually trying to say..."The sea isn't green, and I love the queen. And what exactly is a dream? And what exactly is a joke?". Sorry Syd.
I agree with Black&GreenAchilles that Syd's supposed 'insanity' was probably accellerated by some power struggles within 'The Pink Floyd'. The mis-prescribed medications didn't help.
I do not know if 'conspiracy' classifies the situation, though. The strongest parallel is to Brian Jones.
BTW, the Sally Ann band in 'Jugband' has precident... Dylan's 'Rainy Day Women #12 & #35' on 'Blonde on Blonde' (1966). And, Bob accomplished EXACTLY THE SAME THING by getting his Nashville session musicians to switch instruments after they were sufficiently plastered.
I don't think Syd Barrett was insane, and I don't think he thought he was either. He had grown tired of everything and was acting strange simply because he felt trapped. This song addresses how people are treating him
It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear That I'm not here.
This almost seems like he's sick of people telling him he's mad or treating him like he is, or simply diagnosing his problems(as Dave and Roger were known to do later publically, perhaps they did so privately then).
And I never knew the moon could be so big And I never knew the room could be so blue And I'm grateful that you threw away my old shoes And brought me here instead dressed in red And I'm wondering who could be writing this song.
I don't really know this part except the end, I'm wondering who could be writing this song, if he were mad, how could write a song?
I don't care if the sun don't shine And I don't care if nothing is mine And I don't care if I'm nervous with you I'll do my loving in the winter.
He doesn't care what people think about him, he's going to do his own thing, regardless.
And the sea isn't green And I love the queen And what exactly is a dream And what exactly is a joke.
Just questioning what normal is basically, what is a dream, and what is a joke? If you think about it, they're both very deep questions. I do not think Roger "Syd" Barrett was insane, I think he knew full well what was going on and was just striving to be different.
I agree, floyd never cared for him.
You can see syd crying for help in almost every song he wrote. And everyone ignored his messages.
Syd thought his dream was for people to recognize his pain. But instead it all turned into a joke.
And thats why he quit. Because others could not understand him... And in the end, he could not understand himself either...
Then floyd made money off of him, 'calling' him insane. psh, this is really upsetting...
Just to confirm things, i don't think he was insane either.