| August Burns Red – Rationalist Lyrics | 15 years ago |
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Wow, deekismusic, I am quite impressed with your word manipulation skills. The distinction between not believing something and believing something is false? Really? Atheism - the doctrine or belief that there is no God. The lack of belief in the existence of a God or gods. Lack of belief does not imply lack of disbelief. In fact it implies disbelief. The only way you can truly "lack belief" one way or the other is if you are completely unaware of the idea or object in question. For instance, if you had never heard of the easter bunny you would truly "lack belief." Once you hear about the easter bunny you must choose one side or the other or your brain will do it for you. At this point you NO LONGER LACK BELIEF. You either believe or you don't. An atheist believes that God does not exist. They may not know FOR CERTAIN that God does not exist but that is irrelevant. You are right, an atheist doesn't necessarily believe that there is ABSOLUTELY no God. I really like how you slip absolutely in there. The point is, an atheist DOES have to believe that there is no God. They MUST to fulfill the definition. Certainty does not play a part, that is where the gnostic or agnostic modifier comes in. |
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| August Burns Red – Rationalist Lyrics | 15 years ago |
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I understand the terms and I agree with your definitions. I just prefer to simplify the terms a little more. When I say agnostic I am essentially referring to a "soft atheist" or an "agnostic atheist." When I say "atheist" I am referring to a "hard atheist" or "gnostic atheist." I should have clarified. Really the only point I was getting at is that "hard atheists" are just being silly, which is exactly what you said. So we are in agreement. I continue to hold to the belief that the song encourages us to examine what is real and tangible. Basically the skeptic is saying "Nothing is real. Color is white, is black is color-blind," essentially closing themselves off from any real truths that they can tangibly see and understand with their senses. The next line "tucking away what's true, what's tangible" describes how they forget about the power of observation and critical examination that you spoke highly of. They are "tucking away" obvious truths and in doing so convince themselves that they are not true. Saying theists have nothing tangible except a book is quite laughable, and I really should just leave that alone. I'll give a few examples of tangible evidence for you just for the fun of it. The fact that the Bible is written by over 40 authors over hundreds of years and is in complete agreement with itself after endless examination and scrutiny. The fact that (as recorded in the Book of Martyrs) each of Jesus' disciples other than John died an excruciating death after seeing him raised from the grave and spending the rest of their lives boldly preaching his Gospel. This after they were completely discourage and wrought with self-pity after realizing their leader was dead. What could have caused them to boldly give their lives other than knowing Jesus was alive after such a devastation? The countless first-hand experiences with miraculous and mysterious happenings that Christians all over the world continue to claim. This is not as tangible, that is true, but is worth mentioning nonetheless. I can certainly cite first hand experiences of my own which makes it important to note. The complexity of the Earth and the incredible balance in which it hangs, along with the existence of little to no room for adjustment without a complete collapse. (This makes randomness seem a little more than unlikely.) The fact that the world's best scientists still cannot explain how something living came from something non-living. The fact that the beginning of the Earth, let alone the universe, has no logical explanation outside of a creator. Of course, this evidence is of little use to someone who is convinced in their heart that there is no God. That is the real issue. All I ask is that you continue your search for truth, and I pray that one day God will grant you the faith to believe in him, and open your eyes to the unseen truths of this world. |
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| Cursive – Mama, I'm Satan Lyrics | 15 years ago |
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You're not believing in unbelief in those examples. A cat has unbelief in the easter bunny because (as far as we know) it has no idea that the easter bunny could or couldn't exist. It isn't familiar with the idea. Once you become familiar with the idea of anything, whether it's God or the easter bunny, your mind must chose to believe or not to believe. It's simple really. You don't have "unbelief" in the easter bunny. A cat has that. You don't believe in the easter bunny. |
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| Darkest Hour – No God Lyrics | 15 years ago |
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Forever smacked, You can never know something is 100% true. Everything you experience is through the filter of your own narrow-minded existence. All you have is evidence, not proof. The key is using the evidence to draw logical conclusions. Obviously this doesn't mean you should believe "everything you hear" so I agree with you there. Keystothekid said "If a mind is too open, it can hold nothing." I agree 100% with this statement. One must discover a balance between having an open mind and using discretion to weed out the obvious falsehoods. Being open minded doesn't mean you have no opinions or stances, it means you listen to others with the goal of refining those stances based on learned knowledge. Also, generalizing Christians will get you no where. I would amend to your statement. If a mind is too open, it can hold nothing. If a mind is too closed, nothing can come in. Just like almost everything else in life, the key is achieving balance. Sothsetsu, Your winged monkey premise is a part of a common argument against the existence of a God and fails on many levels. Those who seek wisdom and truth will learn to believe in a God who is backed by extensive evidence. EVIDENCE is the key here. No god can be completely proven or dis-proven, but some have more evidence for their existence than others. After what I consider a comprehensive analysis of the available evidence as well as through personal experience I have concluded that the Christian God is real and working. This doesn't mean I have closed my mind off completely from other ideas but it means that my "filter" for what ideas come in and out has been refined. Show me some evidence for your winged monkey and I'll start listening. On topic, the song title "No God" is silly because it takes one extreme end of the belief scale. Essentially the lyricist has completely closed off his mind from the possible existence of something greater than himself and completely fails at achieving the balance necessary to strive for seeking truth in this world. That is my point. I suggest you all continue your search for truth and continue to refine your own filter. I have faith that my God will reveal himself to you. God bless. |
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| Darkest Hour – No God Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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I can buy that. The only problem I have with that view (his view not yours), is that if you say you believe something and will always refuse to believe anything else, you are closing yourself off from seeking truth. Any person who is interested in knowing the truth should always be ready to be open to other people's views and opinions, if you shut your mind to them you are being close-minded and you are worth feeling sorry for. You should always be ready to hear new ideas and discuss them in an open minded way, allowing the truth to be shown to you over time. Also, the song is about a little more than him simply not believing because he does attempt to throw some mud in the face of the Christian God. If you are going to make untrue claims about someone's belief you should at least be open minded enough to hear their refutations. Closing your mind to them puts you in a very sad place. Who doesn't want to know the truth? |
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| Darkest Hour – No God Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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This song is a complete joke lyrically. Musically, very good indeed but the substance is severely lacking. The entire song commits the logical fallacy of begging the question, that is, assuming that what you are trying to prove to be true is already true. In case Darkest Hour wasn't aware, the existence of God is a heavily debated topic and there is certainly no concrete proof on either side. This song assumes that God doesn't exist and goes from there. There is nothing substantial in the song adding to the argument, just some biased claims made by the lyricist. If the song is viewed from the perspective of people who call themselves Christians but are instead self seeking and only want money and power, I could see how the lyrics could be somewhat more accurate. Christianity is not about these things but when someone like Joel Osteen runs the largest church in America I can certainly see how that image is maintained. I love this band. They make some fantastic music. However, they should choose the subject material of their songs a little more carefully, this is biting off much more than they can chew. |
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| August Burns Red – Rationalist Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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The song isn't saying that they don't believe in anything. Read my comment above. The song is a commentary on the fact that many atheists claim to "lack a belief" in God instead of just saying they believe there is no God. I'm sure August Burns Red would admit that atheists likely believe in the existence of hamburgers or furniture. Stop trying to broaden the meaning of the song. |
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| Cursive – Mama, I'm Satan Lyrics | 16 years ago |
| Funny how atheist artists waste all of their time writing about a God they don't believe in. Don't they have more important things to write about? For instance, the meaninglessness of life, proving that nothing came from nothing, and figuring out how to believe in an unbelief? | |
| August Burns Red – Rationalist Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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This song is talking about how rationalists perceive our existence, specifically atheists. Many atheists claim that atheism is the "lack of a belief" with regards to God, which is somewhat ridiculous. If you ask an atheist if they believe that God does not exist, they will say yes, otherwise they are agnostic at best. Therefore, atheists do have a belief, the belief that God does not exist. This is what this song portrays at the end when it says "you believe in unbelief." The rest of the song is basically talking about how people try to rationalize everything and twist things to fit in with their presuppositions. What they don't realize is that if a creator existed outside of the universe, (which the Christian God must), then he does not have to play by all of the rules of the universe. After all, he is the one who created them. This song says that we need to look at what is real and tangible to help us understand what is really going on. Thats how I see it anyway... :) |
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| As Cities Burn – Lady Blue Lyrics | 16 years ago |
| Completely and totally agree with your interpretation. This is a very well written and moving song. | |
| Cursive – Mama, I'm Satan Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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Yeah man I totally agree, it is very interesting to see people's perspectives on God and humanity displayed in themes throughout an album. I got As Cities Burn's new album "Hell or High Water" at about the same time as this one and it is funny how contrasting they are. Both are fairly dark albums talking about difficult themes but As Cities Burn has a very Christian twist to the whole thing, ending with a lot more optimism than Tim expresses throughout "Mama I'm Swollen." I can't figure out what he believes or doesn't believe from his music completely but if I had to guess I would say he was raised Catholic and has become quite bitter and resentful towards the whole scene. This is a common trend I see in Catholic kids as the emphasis placed on works can really get to them and wear them down over time. I would love to have a conversation with Tim about Christianity to see what he thinks about it, although it is fairly obvious that he has rejected God, at least for the time being. I wonder if he believes in God though? Maybe someone else can confirm or some of the things I've said as right or wrong. Either way, great music is generally emotional (in my opinion), and this CD is full of emotion. Much darker than older albums but very enjoyable. |
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| Funeral for a Friend – Building Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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While I don't necessarily disagree with the general opinion of the meaning of this song, I do disagree with some of the statements made, especially by ZERO. You may be right in saying that the song is about how the world would be better if the world was atheist and so on but your claims as to why it is evident are quite out there. Christians who serve as missionaries to foreign countries (at least those Christians with a strong biblical backing) are not stupid enough to tell people that all of their problems will be solved if they become a Christian. Christianity is based on the promise of eternal life after death, and a spiritually fulfilling life while on earth. It is very evident throughout the Bible, especially through the stories of men such as Job and Paul, that the Christian life is not one to be envied and will be filled with many hardships and trials. As for God "never coming around," this is a very understandable thing for people to think as life is tough and a lot of times it seems like you are on your own. However, I would just like you to think about the possibility of God working in ways that don't make sense to you at some point, but will later work out on your behalf. No one can really understand completely how God works so it is easy to say he isn't there at all but if you examine the lives of those who really follow him, you can see that he is present. Anyway, I don't really want to get into an atheism vs. Christianity debate, thats not why I posted here. I personally think atheism is the most unsupported and ignorant of any belief, and that agnosticism is far more understandable. My only real point for posting here is to say that Christians do not believe that being a Christian will solve all of your worldly problems and no real Christian would go around spreading such falsehoods. Also many mission trips performed by Christians address simple human needs such as providing food, shelter, and water to those in need. The Bible teaches that we should not just say to someone who is in a bad situation, "God bless, I hope everything works out", but we should help them in whatever way we can physically as well. Just wanted to clear that up. Also, I love Funeral for a Friend, have been a huge fan since Seven Ways. No matter their or our own beliefs, I think we can all agree that their music is amazing! |
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