Further

I love this song, but it's definitely the darkest that VNV has written. To me, Ronan is contemplating the Universe as many scientists see it, without a God or an afterlife, while looking "Further" into the future to the inevitable demise of life. Indulging this view can only lead to one conclusion...that we as individuals, a species, or a planet are meaningless; that there is no right or wrong, only shape-shifting matter moving around that sometimes forms living things, which while living, are only bound in hopelessness.

The last two lines are "As we were forged we shall return, perhaps some day. I will remember you and wonder who we were." I'm not sure what the official version of the punctuation is, but I think of the song with the following punctuation. "As we were forged we shall return. Perhaps some day I will remember you and wonder who we were." It definitely changes the meaning for the darker, but makes it less contradictive.

Have fun slitting your wrists everyone.

Mark

I take it in more of a literal sense, as a view on humanity and civilization. As someone said in another post, If we were to vanish tomorrow, what would we, as humanity, have accomplished?

"And in retrospect I'll say we've done no wrong. Who are we to judge what is right and what has purpose for us? With designs upon ourselves to do no wrong, running wild unaware of what might come of us."

This whole stanza intrigues me. I think he's referring to how we make our laws and morals in an almost circular fashion, such that what the majority of people do, "right or wrong" is good. Therefore we, as a society/civilization, can "do no wrong" because everything we do is right, by default.

He realizes everthing is mortal, with the one exception of love. Human civilization and the sun will someday crumble into dust. But as the lyrics say in darkness he will find his love. Giving up hope only comes witht he loss of everything. In darkness they give up hope of returning to the state of happiness being together. Nothing lasts forever.. unless you remember it.

My favorite VNV Nation song. So dark, so feelingful, so.. existential!

It raises both a question about where the mechanism called "humanity" leads us, whether it's positive or not (but who can say what's right or wrong? Nicely put..) and for me there is also a hopefull thought. In these wonderful lyrics: "The Sun was born, so it shall die..... ...each day shall end as it begins"

It's like it says for me that no matter what, no matter where humanity goes, no matter if there will be destruction, armageddons or the loss of civilization (end of days), maybe that is bound to happen. The sun was born so it shall die. And then the sun rises and dies again. It's like a life cycle, a cycle of our civilization where things must die for a new beginning.

So, it's hopeful that whatever happens in our world, no matter how destructive, it's always a reason for a new beginning and a brighter(?) future. Even though the song is dark and bitter but there is a hidden hope in it I feel. When this song was uploaded in the net you could find it with the title "end of days" which is not the right title. "Further" is how it should be and it fits more the feeling of hope. The title is not focused on "end of days" - destruction/loss, but "further", like saying that things will move further, that's the point, the cycle that brings up a new perhaps better future after each loss..

..is it mixed with a loss of someone you love as several people say? In some of the lyrics in between my favorite parts of the lyrics, it seems like this even though it doesn't make much sense. Anyways,. I like more the existential interpretation even though they could be mixed somehow :P

This song is about the meaning of the existence of humanity.I take the lyrics in a rather literal sense. In this lignt I think the first half is very touching, though the last half is a bit strange.

The universe, including everything human, will inexorably disappear when the sun burns out. The sun is a star so it has a limited lifespan (though very long compared to the life of a human being of course). So there is a time in the future when the sun will burn out. When that happens all memories of humanity as we know it will disappear, therefore nothing that happened before will matter anymore.

By the way the last line is "I will remember us and wonder who we were."

To me it means losing someone you really love but realizing you will always be with them and find them somehow when you really need them. That although your time together didn't last together your love for them will. It will always remind me of a special person in my life because it was his favorite song and i hated vnv but like them alot now for this song and many other songs bring me back to the good times me and him had. :cries: hehe hope my explanation made sense :-)

I feel that this song is about a loved one- he knows that in the grand scheme of things their relationship didn't affect anything- they were only mortal, and their relationship did not transcend time & space, but it was still everything to him, and he is slowly giving up on life inside after losing this person. He wonders if they will ever be together again, perhaps in the future, perhaps in another life, and if that happens, he will remember everything that happened from his own life, and wonder who they were together

To me, this song is very depressive, but with a bit of hope. It does make me think about death, or losing someone you love, but in time no matter what happens, you'll always end up together in dreams.

i can't explain why, but the line 'and in darkness i will find you' gives me an increidble sense of hope...makes me think that no matter how dark things get, there will always be someone who loves and cares enough to find me and bring me out of that darkness...

It seems to me that this song is about two hopeless souls that are destined (doomed?) to be together even though they are, or will be, separated by mortality or circumstance.