Random

i don't think we need to be concerned about our i.q.s so much as the degredation of our society when this guy has a username like 'quiffporn.'

Probably more telling of how low society has sunk down the toilet, is the fact that chav scumbags are beating each other up over cigarettes and 13 year old girls are getting pregnant while listening to this garbage, as we speak and yet it is a silly user name, containing the word 'porn', that causes offence...

this songs okay but i like Tango better. I hope someone would put the lyrics up for that song

Dear 'quiffporn'

I really think you're missing out on something here. I think Lady Sovereign is great. You may not like the music, but please don't tell me what she does isn't incredibly skillful. She's witty, bold, funny, and importantly, she has something to say. I can't wait for the album. She's so recognisably English, and I think that's great too, especially in an industry full of people singing in pseudo-American accents.

I doubt very much whether "13 year old girls are getting pregnant while listening to this garbage". And even if they were, could you enlighten me on what this has to do with Lady Sovereign? I obviously missed her track called "Are you 13? Then go out and get pregnant".

And your whole rant against these people you call "chavs". I find it sinister, nasty and hateful. It's discriminatory, derogatory, immature, and it tarnishes a whole social group with a massive generalisation. Sure, you get idiots dressed in tracksuits and trainers causing trouble. But you get idiots everywhere. I don't know if you realise how dangerous you sound.

IQ is a ridiculous concept, but seeing as you use it to denote intelligence, we'll go with it for a moment. Please tell me how she is "lowering our collective IQ". I'd like to hear about that. She's using the language she speaks in. She's manipulating it for her own ends. She's using rhythm and rhyme with a level of skill that few manage. And her wordplay is good - I'm looking forward to seeing what the album has to offer. As for "bastardising" the English language - well, that's the beauty of language. It's ever changing, and can be manipulated to wonderful effect. I can't honestly think of any performers who don't bastardise it to one extent or another - I'd be interested if you can prove me wrong on this one.

I'd just like to say one last thing. When a talent comes along, it seems such a shame to ignore it or deride it just because it's not dressed in the fine regalia that you normally demand from your entertainers. Or who sing in perfect RP English.

Because no-one does.

For the record, I too doubt the validity of IQ gradings, with relation to measuring interlect, but:

While I disaprove of people continually pointing to singer, actors or other people currently in the public eye, as being bad role models I also think it is slightly naive to think that young teens, looking for an identity will not look to people like 'Lady Sov', as points of reference, and when the people they are looking to, can barely string a sentance together without a swear word or a word they have made up on the spot, I begin to fear for the future of this country.

The notion that the image of the 'Chav' is something cooked up by middle class idiots as a way of looking down on the working class, is totally retarded. The fact is, I consider myself 'working' class and I suffer as much as anyone at the hands of Chavs. Prejudice and discrimination has nothing to do with it, the fact is that while I know one or two people who dress in tracksuits and baseball caps, who are nice people, generally they are a bunch of feckless, untrustworthy, work-shy filth, happy to mooch off welfare or steal, in order to sustain themselves. And don't tell me that I don't know what I am talking about, I am sourounded by the thieving little pikies, every day.

With regard to your comments about the evolution of the English language, you seem to be under the impresion that any change is for the better.
Are you honestly suggesting that words like; "gyal", "proppa-nah" and "finkin" should be added to the dictionary, simply because a certain demographic chooses to shun the English language, in favour of sounding like they have brain damage? That is the same as eating your dinner off the floor, so that your dog feels he is part of the family.

Now down to the main point, as I see it: Lady Sovereign is not talented. There, I said it. It has nothing to do with the fact that she looks like a crack addict, it is because she is completely without merit. She has nothing of any worth, to say and she is deeply, deeply stupid. Genuinely great MCs have been able to rhyme well, without having to butcher the English language, to fit the sentence, to the point that it no longer means anything.

Oh will all of you just shut the hell up and dance? It sounds good and you can kinda sorta dance to it. So dig it and shut up.

Oh and one more thing. She is perhaps the first female whitey who has the possibility of making it sort of big in the rap world. Her tracks are perhaps some of the most catchy things that I've heard this whole year. And who are you kidding she doesn't have talent. The fact that she's able to rhyme at that speed is pretty admirable. Sure she may not be the MOST original rapper, but, forgive me for rubbing yer face in it, this song is one of the most interesting things i've heard this year. It's like I say. Those who can, do. Those who can't bitch about those who do.

read: the spice girls were hyped commerically, not critically. bad example. the fact that this is an argument on songmeanings should be really humiliating for all of you.

Tell me a rapper that doesn't butcher the English language.

I bet you can't.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that Lady Sovereign is most popular with the people you call Chavs. I'd argue that this isn't the case.

And despite trying to write a more balanced argument in your last message, you still slip into insult and generalisation. I'm sorry if you feel surrounded and victimised by a group of people, but it does explain your mentality a bit better. But come on, stupid? How many 19 year olds do you know with a talent like that, or the drive and belief in her talent that she has?

Do you not think your anger would be better directed at the myriad of teenage girls singing about sex and the record companies that peddle their trash to young girls? OK, fair enough, you don't like Lady Sovereign, but she writes it herself, she's not being told what to wear and say. Even if I don't like something, if it's honest and real I'll back it every time against most of the stuff that is classed as music these days.

If you do have an open mind, which I'm hoping you do, try listening to either of her collaborations with The Ordinary Boys. She remixed their single "Boys Will Be Boys", and they remixed her single "9 to 5". Both are well worth a listen.

As for your rose-tinted view of the past: you do realise that it's exactly that, don't you? I'm interested in whther you actually believe what you say, or whether you just get yourself worked up and say things you don't really mean.

If you want a list of past examples of bastardised language in songs from the last 50 years, then let me know and I'll send you some examples. There's loads. And as for making up words, well, if no one did that, we'd still be grunting. Do a bit of reasearch, if you're honestly interested in a debate. Go to a search page and check out how many words Shakespeare made up or bastardised to fit his sentences.

This is fun.

If Chavs are not buying this garbage, then who is? (apart from you, obviously).

I know loads of people with drive and ambition, it just sweetens the deal when you find a way to get rich by doing nothing of any worth.

I don't feel victimised by Chavs, anymore than the rest of society, but it is hard to not hold a very stereotypical view of them, when, given half a chance, they act up to the commonly held view that they are thieving, untrustworthy, stupid, intolerant 'doleies'. Trust me when I say that next time someone steals your mobile phone or your car stereo, it will be a Chav.

I agree that the English language is an ever-evolving lexicon, but as it stands, we still have a language which has a pleasing sound. Left in the hands of pikies like Lady Sov, we will soon have a language which makes us sound brain damaged, where correct spelling and complete sentences are considered archaic. I guess this is moving away from the point (the point being that Lady Sovereign is a grimy little scally crack-whore, peddling garbage to a generation of welfare mothers and work-shy boy-racer retards), this I feel is more an argument for the filtering of language, in order to maintain the integrity of the English Language.

I simply can't disagree with you in strong enough terms, when it comes to talent. She has none. Her vocal styling sounds like when some racist guy talks about how rappers 'ain't got no talent' and that 'anyone could do that', and then goes on to prove himself wrong, by attempting to freestyle.
Nothing she does is particularly skilful, it only rhymes because when she isn't making up words to fit, she is mispronouncing existing words and in either case, her lyrics are totally meaningless. While I am aware that Shakespeare frequently strayed from the template, he did so in order to give his writing an edge, often altering words, to sound a certain way, within the sentence, or to give his writing an onomatopoeic quality. What he didn’t do was shun correct sentence structure based on a poor grasp of the English Language.

"Do you not think your anger would be better directed at the myriad of teenage girls singing about sex and the record companies that peddle their trash to young girls?"

There are tons of artists who suck, Lady Sovereign was simply one of the first who sprang to mind, but at the same time, I don't see how you can say that they are more deserving of my hatred. Surely making a career out of having very little talent and a potty mouth is just as bad as peddling a bunch of generic garbage, to an audience too young to know any better.

I think that in this sense, a resolution will be a long time coming, because we seem to have very different views, as to what constitutes talent.