Kill Rock Stars

The line "I wish I could have seen Courtney demonstrate some real misogyny" refers to a fight between Kathleen Hannah and Courtney Love which happened backstage during the Lollapalooza tour on 4 July 1995.

Apparently Kathleen remarked that Frances Bean (Kurt Cobain and Courtney’s child) was in another room with an I.V referring to the fact that Courtney was known for having taken several dangerous narcotics while pregnant. Courtney retaliated by flicking a lit cigarette at Kathleen, pelting here with candy and punching her in the face. Days later Courtney referred to Kathleen as "Ratface" in an AOL message board. Kathleen pressed charges and Courtney plead guilty to assault.

From what I know some of the tension between Fat Mike and Kathleen arose when NOFX and Bikini Kill shared the bill at a festival in Hawaii where Fat Mike dedicated the song "Liza and Louise" to Bikini Kill (Liza and Louise being a song about a comical lesbian romance and Bikini Kill being a very open feminist band)

All that aside “Kill Rock Starts” and “Deceptacon” was just an school feud between bands nothing more. Ultimately Fat Mike is not a sexist, in fact he started the record label Pink and Black Records purely for female artists. And while Kathleen Hannah is a prominent feminist she does not hate men.

Some of the Bikini Kills fan-girls on here are totally misinterpreting the song.

Fat Mike knows Kathleen Hanna and they don't get along (or at least they didn't 13 years ago when he wrote this).

The lyrics aren't based on his views of feminism or his views of her songs, they're based on things she actually said to him/about him that pissed him off.

Kathleen Hanna, much like her fans posting on here, can't take a joke and doesn't get sarcasm so she probably misinterpreted one of the Mike's songs and got all uppity over it. If you cannot take a joke or you don't get sarcasm, NOFX is the WRONG band for you!

BTW: Idntfcklosers has never listened to NOFX in his or her life, I guarantee it.

From what I read out of Bikini Kill, Le Tigre and Julie Ruin lyrics, Kathleen doesn't hate MEN, she hates the STATUS that men have in society. It's not a personal, "I hate you because you're a man" thing, it's a hatred of the patriarchy and the authority that the patriarchy has -- which I totally agree with. So Fat Mike doesn't have a right to call her a man-hater without first understanding the point she makes in her music: equality, empowerment, and acceptance.

Yeah not to mention theres actually only one white person in NOFX, that being smelly their drummer. Anyway since it was awesome to see a flood of le tigre/ bikini kill fans, I'd figure I would have a go on the side of NOFX.

Kathleen did in fact hate Fat Mike for his songs about (fat) S and M lesbians. And since the rest of the band played the songs, they got brought down with him.

Speaking serious shit against a band because of obviously sarcastic lyrics(even though in 'Liza and louise' there is an undertone of women's liberation) is pretty lame in the first place and Kill Rock Stars was probably nothing more then a press release on to what they thought of the situation. Le tigre then put out deceptacon(which is catchy as fuck, but when you are as subtle as calling lyrics dumb, well it ruins the point). However on NOFX's end the song fell on deaf ears and actually led to Le tigre selling out, being used by many major corporations, including a jewerly company that has a history with blood diamonds.

Anyway thats my 2 cents

The "you've been crowned the newest queen" couldn't be a message about Le Tigre and Kathleen Hanna's increased fame because of that group -- the song / album was released before Le Tigre had even formed (1998). It is more likely a dig at Kathleen Hanna's scenester punk status and the fact that she kind of became the face of the whole riot grrrl scene.

I think that the whole "hating" or "blaming" men thing is a really tired, overused argument against feminists. And I think it is particularly tired and boring in application to so-called 'Third Wave' feminists (which coincides with the rise and fall of the riot grrrl movement) because we really see power in a more postmodern sense, in which it is constitutive and embedded within us -- power "from below" as Foucault would have had it. So it's not a philosophical matter of simple oppression, but a lot more complex with more axis of identity to examine.

Furthermore, I contest the labeling of anyone now as a 'riot grrrl' because riot grrrl as a movement is beyond dead. It's kind of like acid rock -- it existed in a certain space and location and was not just about music--there were pretty specific politics involved. We have the legacy of riot grrrl, but not the actual movement anymore. This is history, in music and pop culture terms.

This isn't my favorite NOFX song. In fact, I don't even think I have a favorite NOFX song, but I think that simplicity and occasional outright stupidity is part of the NOFX aesthetic. It's what they do and they aren't bad at it.

Most people totally missed this point. This is a personal arguement that happened, its a reaction. "dont tag me msyogynist" stop taking things so literally and being so offended. Its not a sweeping coment on feminism it is a direct response. Even if it is mind you, big deal, if you are so fucking pissed thats your issue. "this music aint your fucking industry." just dont listen to.

Its about that woman in Bikini Kill, Kathleen whatever. But you knew that already, right?

I hAte how FAt Mike portrAys KAthleen As some bitch FeminAzi. I would go into depths of my opinion of feminism, but whAt's the point?

Whoa this is awful he totally misinterprets Bikini Kill.

...Kathleen from Le Tigre isnt as bad as this song portrays her.