| Tina Turner – What's Love Got To Do With It Lyrics | 3 years ago |
| @[BlixerXtra:41457] thanks for your reply. i. have no recollection of having written this. i do not have strong views about these lyrics, Tina, Ike or their relationship. nor do i find obvious what \'a second hand emotion\' is. \r\ni empathize that you find the explanation too long and too complex for an anonymous non-expert forum post... probably it\'s even too long for a discussion between aquainted, interested expert peers. that there is no reaction safe yours within a year may indicate that you and i may have been the only ones who have even read this. if anyone else read it, most obviously it left no impression on them, if indeed, they understood the train of thought.\r\n\r\nhaving said that, the interpretation clearly sounds like me.... and certainly is my thinking. in fact, I\'m sure i have written this.\r\n\r\nwhat i can tell you about my as if from outside reading experience of the train of thought is that i find it easy to read, compact, to the point and relevant to actual interaction. if anything, i find it too short and if this was presented to me in an interview i would do all i could to keep this guy talking, if possible for the whole night because I would want to know what assumptions his models rest on, at what layer of abstraction he is bottoming out, what his range of references is, how much he has thought through standard clichee traps and whether he is simply associatively meandering or if he is going somewhere with his convolution stack.... if i like and respect his thinking, I would also be interested if he might sell out or crack when exhausted. .. like compromise or agree to disagree.... ????\r\n\r\ni agree with you though, that this is pointless in almost every context. i see it as a pest, which no one needs. the only reason it took me quite a while to get this, at least on theory ????????.... is that people don\'t want to be rude and pretend to be interested and understand, something i would probably never do nor see the point of.... especially in non hierarchical relationships auch a friendships not least because I find that manipulative and alienating. and so easy to say that I\'m not into that discussion.\r\n\r\nbut to the content of your objection: this song was neither written by Tina Turner not for her but by two of the most decorated song writers of their era at the height of their careers. i stand persuaded that must people underestimate how much thought, art, innuendo, nuance and plain cross checking guess into top tier work like this. \r\nespecially if you want to sell a 3 min song about love to the great artists of the era you need to depict a situation that many influencers and buyers can identify with, while at the same time staying clear of clichee or triteness. that is obviously because the artist and their management need to want to stake their reputation on these lines, right? \r\nafter all, a song will go big only if they are able to relate it as though it was a particularly intimate snap shot of their must private feelings.... fans need to be able to feel that their star is relating to them personally or is part of their little group.... and these stars need to not only practice this ad nauseam but also then be prepared to be identified with these lines, possibly for decades. small wonder, then, that 3 or 4 of the greatest interpreters of their era refused this song....and Tina didn\'t like it either.\r\n\r\nanyway, i understand that my point was that love is literally a second hand emotion\', i.e. regurgitating, feasting on others enthusiasm for ones self presentation.\r\nsee the etymology of persona, from greek \'mask\', ie an artificial, static face to hide behind. a face look alike intended to deceive and distract from the truth of oneself, ...while being able to communicate and observe in order to adjust appearance or pretend to drop it, as perceived to be opportune for selfish, hidden agenda. \r\nor more simply put: appearing friendly and assured, while being hostile and confused...\r\n\r\nso what do you think the meaning of \'second hand emotion\' is? like how is love \'second hand\' ... and how is that bad? or how does it relate to the other (first hand?) emotions/intimations? \r\n\r\na you can see my intentions are one thing....???????? .... but i do and large avoid people these days and that\'s certainly good....???? | |
| Tina Turner – What's Love Got To Do With It Lyrics | 4 years ago |
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On quora, there are probably a dozen or more requests for expert evaluation of what 'second hand emotion' might refer to. I think it's fairly obvious and therefore stand bewildered that i didn't find it explained that way: 'Love', as discussed in the song, is a reaction to a [real or imagined] reaction to oneself, as [real or imagined] presented to a significant representative of a group to judge it. Example: 'I love Nina!' means I have selected Ina as representing the group for whose approval I am applying [to win their trust & access to coveted resources they control]. I hope, labor and sacrifice to get Nina to like me [or rather my presentation of myself] with comparable enthusiasm. 'Love' proper, in this context, occurs interdependent with the feelings of another being, therefore it can be called second-hand, i.e. having been used by someone else before = feeding on the emotions of another. The text bemoans that the indicators for this are misleading [which is the literal meaning of 'seduction'] because they have an extraneous source ['i've read it some place'], i.e. they do not reflect honest reaction of amazement but calculated manipulation to obtain resources and power in a person committed to that feeling. She tries to warn the person whose life she is about to ruin with her automated manipulation attempts. Nonetheless, she concedes that this calculated deception doesn't shield her from being critically affected in a similar way, i.e. the act of confiding manipulation and warning someone about oneself is an act of intimacy and trust, which seeks approval for honesty, i.e. creates love as 'second-hand emotion'. to compound the mirror in mirror effect, she uses this disclosure about her fears as a further manipulative device to egg on the wooing person with a deeper level of intimacy after the pretend-rejection. It's a fairly basic existential situation, which she describes and I don't see any reason to make this about her & Ike. FN: As a seductive device this is mostly used by women who have a reputation for having had plenty of relationships and or other indicator's of 'sluttishness' [mostly as judged by competing women; the way Tina presents on stage would be one] to over-compensate for impressions that cheapen their presentation. Probably true similarly for men but i don't know. It works well and these women are pleasant to be with in many ways. It's also true, though, that relationships with them tend to 'not work out', basically because they tend to be sex and/or love addicts and that 'condition' comes in a package, which crucially contains the cause for the addiction aspect, usually a critically damaged set of frames for experience. - That's only the cases I've come to know, though. If you are Tina Turner, I presume people feel it's okay to make every interpretation something to do with what they know about her relationship to Ike. I don't. How do you feel if entitled people limit you to a bunch of clichés they picked up about you? How is that different? |
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| Lou Reed – How Do You Think It Feels Lyrics | 4 years ago |
| @[landfillpoet:36072] i read or heard an interview with his gf at the time. she referred to a specific moment in the studio, when berlin was recorded, where - if i remember correctly - a collective creeping out ensued [if that's the right way of saying it] when they all got the notion that lou reed sang about their relationship. of course that doesn't mean that she wasn't projecting. | |
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