| Antony and the Johnsons – Cripple and the Starfish Lyrics | 13 years ago |
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OK, last fix, and I'm seriously gonna go. ...But a discussion this personal has so much room for misunderstanding / misinterpretation... and, in this case, poor choice of words! Another part I wish I'd phrased better: "But although the child-self was victimized in this initial encounter, the adult-self is reflecting on the significance of this experience to them, positive and negative." I don't think the experience of sexual abuse can be considered positive in any way. I tried to make that clear above, but what I was trying to say here is that pain being perceived as pleasure is a positive experience for some people (masochists), even though others may not see pain as pleasurable in any context. |
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| Antony and the Johnsons – Cripple and the Starfish Lyrics | 13 years ago |
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To clarify some more... When I said: "And consensual adult sexuality is not abuse." -- Consensual adult sexuality can definitely be abusive, so that was a stupid sentence. (...I'm getting myself into hot water here with my quick posting -- wish there was an edit button!) I'm gonna bow out now, but suffice it to say, I feel that all forms of abuse are abhorrent and entirely detrimental to all. I do feel, though, that incredibly negative experiences can be sources of strength, but that does nothing to justify their occurrence in the first place. Abuse in any manner, to any being, is always unequivocally wrong and reprehensible. |
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| Antony and the Johnsons – Cripple and the Starfish Lyrics | 13 years ago |
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I should clarify. When I said: "Furthermore, I think the lyrics suggest that, as a facet of adult consensual sexuality, submission isn't solely passive but can be an act of power in itself" ...I meant something specific: Abuse is never consensual, so I was not talking about abuse, here, in any form. And consensual adult sexuality is not abuse. I was referring to what Gender/Queer Studies theorists refer to as "power exchange" in BDSM relationships, versus what is often perceived as an imbalance of power in such relationships, where submissives are often cast as "powerless". |
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| Antony and the Johnsons – Cripple and the Starfish Lyrics | 13 years ago |
| If you are referring to my post, I did not intend to imply that abuse of any kind is empowering in any way whatsoever. Simply that one of the therapeutic steps to dealing with a history of abuse is coming to terms with how it manifests in your later life -- and some people choose to do this by seeing themselves as survivors rather than victims. There is strength to be drawn from that. | |
| Antony and the Johnsons – Cripple and the Starfish Lyrics | 13 years ago |
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{possible TRIGGERS} xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I think this is about a first sexual experience -- in this case, the act of penetration by Mr. Muscle (an apparent reference to c*ck itself; Mr. Muscle is "forcing, bursting"). I also think this is, perhaps, a recounting of what would be considered childhood sexual abuse-- I believe it's sung, in part, from the perspective of a kid who is encountering this act for the first time ("stingy thingy into *little* me, me, me" (also, child-like language, here)). But although the child-self was victimized in this initial encounter, the adult-self is reflecting on the significance of this experience to them, positive and negative. The shocking sense of being powerless and overtaken (and possibly beaten) and how this initial experience has also become a facet of their adult sexuality (masochism) and how they have come to experience pleasure and love. It seems to me that there is an attempt to reconcile the terrible and confusing legacy of sexual abuse with the claiming of one's own sexuality, since early sexual abuse simultaneously traumatizes and necessarily sets the stage for how desire and sexuality is experienced throughout life. Pain can become pleasurable -- happiness can become fused to pain... to such a degree that one part does not feel complete without the other (pleasure/pain). [btw, I don't intend to suggest that sexual abuse is a factor in all BDSM lifestyles; from my perspective, it's just what this particular song is about.] But there's also a kind of triumphant reclaiming of self in this song, as well ("So come on and hurt me; I'll grow back like a starfish" (which can also be taken as a physical metaphor, as mentioned by other commenters)). The repetition of the line and the music swelling at this point just enforces this. Furthermore, I think the lyrics suggest that, as a facet of adult consensual sexuality, submission isn't solely passive but can be an act of power in itself. It's a cathartic and incredibly beautiful song to be sure, and it never fails to choke me up, if not send me into a full-on crying jag. I'm very grateful this song exists. |
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