| Thrice – Kings Upon The Main Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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I understand where some people are coming from, not seeing the religious aspects, because I don't really see things that way either. However, I've mentioned before that I believe the arts to be open to any interpretation. As Dustin said, these sonnets were written to be about nature and the elements, but as someone else said (I can't remember who, and I don't really feel like searching), to ignore the Christian aspect of Dustin's songwriting would be foolish. I'm glad that you mentioned the meaning of "the main", Mortisfacio, because I would have had you not. :) That said, I do believe this song to be much more about the sea than about God. Though I do see why one could argue that it is about God, the most important thing I pick out is nature's insistence that man cannot, and will not, ever truly overcome it. Water, in general, is an interesting thing to symbolize, given that there are so many different aspects one could mention. In some works, water is generally depicted as peaceful and loving; indeed, astrologically, people of the element water tend to be the most emotional and the most caring. However, water is also depicted as being terrible and unforgiving (which also corresponds to the negative aspect of water people- though they tend to be slow to anger, their fury is frightening when it comes). I think it's very interesting how Dustin chose to characterize each of the elements used here- fire is warning, water unforgiving, air hurt, and earth is rather melancholy. And all of them have more or less the same thing to say: mankind should not try to control nature; when they do, everything goes wrong, and they only end up destroying nature (and usually themselves). I like that the melodies of all four are more or less the same as well- they're simply changed a bit to reflect their particular elements. It's very fitting, as the lyrics tend to do the same thing. That is, though they're very different, they do all seem to make similar points. This is a very effective way of tying this whole project together. |
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| Thrice – Silver Wings Lyrics | 16 years ago |
| And by "will them with oil," I mean "fill them." | |
| Thrice – Silver Wings Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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Okay, before I talk about my beliefs about this song (which I will always try to start with "I think this means..." or something similar, so that people don't accuse me of being pro- or anti-religion) I just want to reiterate (as I stated in my interpretation of "Child of Dust") that my favorite thing about the arts is that they are inherently open to interpretation. Though the artist may have one or two things in particular in mind when they create a certain piece, to say that the piece in question MUST be only about those one or two things is plain stupid. Meaning is in the eye/ear of the beholder. That's just the way it is in the arts. Think about that drawing of the vase/two faces. There are two completely legitimate ways to view it. Though that wasn't created simply for art's sake, I'd say it's a good example of the point I'm trying to make here- there are MULTIPLE ways of interpreting ANY piece of art (be it visual, musical, or anything else). To say one is any more valid than another is egotistical and exceedingly narrow-minded. To say that this song (or any other) ABSOLUTELY IS or ABSOLUTELY IS NOT about God (or anything else, for that matter) is simply ignorant. I guess to put it quite simply, everyone is right and we should all just get along. :) To those who say that this is not about God, I tend to come a little more to that side of things, given that I'm a generally nonreligious person, and I tend to view life with a more secular slant. I admit this. However, I do see definite religious overtones to this song, and given that 3/4 of the members of this band are Christian, I would consider that no coincidence. However, this doesn't necessarily have to mean the Christian God. It could, really, be any sort of higher power. However (and bear in mind, everything I'm about to say is simply MY opinion, so please don't attack me! I don't think any of the rest of you are wrong!) I believe this to be about air itself. Yes, there are religious overtones, as I've said, but given that Dustin did sat that he intended these sonnets to be spoken in the voices of their respective elements, I think it's much more likely that the speaker here is the Air. I'm not going to analyze every stanza here like I did with "Child of Dust," as I think that most of it is pretty self-explanatory (especially when viewed, as I do, as being from Air's perspective). I will say that the poetry here is absolutely beautiful. Language-wise, this is my favorite of the sonnets. Musically, it may be as well. I know this piece has been compared (negatively) to the music of Enya, I don't consider that to be a bad thing. For one, I respect Enya's music; for another, since they were clearly going for an airy (duh) and ethereal sound here, a comparison to Enya is not necessarily a bad thing. One thing I really have to commend the boys for is their ability to personify all the elements successfully in their music. Fire and Water are relatively easy, I think, but Air and Earth are a little more ambiguous, sound-wise, and they did a fantastic job of capturing those sounds in these two sonnets. I do have to agree with the suggestion (I can't honestly remember who made it first) that the use of the word "air" in the third stanza is most likely simply due to the rather restrictive rhyming scheme of the stanza as a poetic form; I know I've mentioned this before, but it's very impressive for Dustin to write such beautiful sonnets, as the sonnet is such a restrictive poetic genre. I know people have questioned the use of the word "air" here, if the speaker is air, but as I said, it seems most likely that he simply needed a word that would work here, as "I've pitied you and plied your sails with me" sounds pretty stupid, and, more importantly, doesn't rhyme. At all. I really don't think the final couplet needs more exposition. I've read some other analyses that have basically covered it all- for as much as we rely on air, we show frighteningly little gratitude; after all, "from tender years [we've taken air] for granted." All I'm going to say further is that the final couplet of this sonnet ties it in with "Child of Dust's" theme of man being so thoroughly ungrateful for all of the wonders nature has given us. Nature gives us mountains, and what do we do? Blow the tops off to get a little bit of coal, then dump them in a nearby river. We get air, we poison it. We get oceans, we will them with oil. We get fire, we use it to kill one another and to burn down forests. Sometimes mankind makes me sick. |
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| Thrice – Child of Dust Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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I'm glad drummerinthesun made the point about the John Donne poem- I was going to say exactly that. The sonnets are my favorite parts of the Alchemy index, partly because of the musicality (I'm a music student, so bear with me if I tend to veer off in that direction) and partly because of the amazing dexterity with which these guys write their lyrics. Sonnets, of course, are among the more restrictive poetic forms, so to be able to write them so proficiently is very impressive. That said, I'd like to comment about some of your comments, most of which are very interesting. I will admit that, as a relatively nonreligious person, I would like to hear a few more ideas that are not so wholly biblical; though I do agree that there are biblical references, I (personally) don't view the whole song as being a retelling of any particular Bible story. Obviously, there are references to the stories of Adam and Eve, and probably the Prodigal Son (though the song does in fact use the word "prodigal," they could simply have the CONCEPT of a prodigal son- that is, someone who spends the wealth they have, only to have to rely on someone else). Though it is mentioned that the title comes from a book title, it's possible that title originally came from the "ashes to ashes" passage as well. However, and bear in mind that this is just my opinion, I believe this to be more of a remonstrance by Mother Nature to man than one from God. Given that the other sonnets are written from the points of view of the respective elements about which they are written, I think it makes most sense that this would be, too; Mother Earth is simply an incarnation of sorts of the element earth. Moreover, it would make sense (artistically) for them to depict earth in such a nurturing sort of role, as air is depicted similarly, and air and earth, traditionally, are opposites, in the same way that fire and water are. I see the line "supplied you not your spirit but your shape" as more evidence that this is in fact from earth's point of view; since earth (along with the other elements) is traditionally rooted (no pun intended) to the physical aspect of life; I suppose that, were this from God's perspective, he wouldn't be saying that he didn't supply man's spirit. Obviously, the references to Eden could be about Adam and Eve, but in more general terms, it could refer to the fact that mankind is no longer simply content with nature and its bounty, but is working more and more toward subjugating nature and making it work to our gain. This is echoed in the second stanza, looking at this from a parental aspect. "Though I only ever gave you love" could be intended more as a metaphor again regarding nature's bounties, and man's "rebellion" by destroying forests, polluting the waters, and poisoning the skies. Furthermore, the next two lines could be referring to our wars by saying that the only thing we're really giving back are the pools of blood (again, possibly a metaphor) from our constant warring. The reference to the Donne poem (which has already been quoted, so I won't do it again) suggests the sense of connectivity, which is also mentioned in the whole "dust to dust" idea; that is, we should consider being careful what we put in the earth, as we'll end up there someday too. Moreover, it could also be a general warning against such constant war, as, again with the connectivity, all life is connected, and the death of one affects many others (see the Butterfly Affect- though perhaps not the movie). This is an easy lead-in for the next stanza: every life will eventually end, and we will be returned to the earth, from which all life came. This again could be an indirect suggestion that we should be careful what we do with the earth while we live. This stanza (in its last two lines) suggests that the only time mankind will truly know peace is when we are dead and returned to the earth. This could be viewed religiously or secularly, but they are effectively the same: death brings relief from the pains of this life, whether one believes in heaven or not. More specifically, to that regard, the line "For every seed must die before it grows" is, in my opinion, a metaphor of reincarnation, which is present in nearly every religion in some form or another; though most people tend to associate reincarnation in its most literal sense with Eastern religions or with "New Age" philosophies, the ideas of heaven and hell in most western religions are, in fact, also an example of this idea. I think this particular line is best left up to each individual person, as it seems to be one of few lines, if not the only one, that is simply a religious one. (Though several others contain lines that could be (or most certainly are) biblical references, none of them are strictly religious; after all, referring simply to the bible is not inherently Christian, as the Bible can be viewed as simply a book...though I mean no offense to any Christians; I was raised as one). The final couplet most strongly emphasizes the idea that with death comes peace. The word "safe" in particular suggests this, especially with the somewhat sardonic use of the word "wisdom;" in this case, "wisdom" seems to imply exactly the opposite, that it is, in fact, the "wisdom" of mankind that causes many of the problems in the world. Pair with this, also, the traditional aspect of earth (in the ancient alchemical, as well as traditional astrological ideas) as being steady and calm, the speaker (which I am almost certain is the earth itself) is most likely suggesting that, far from frightening and tragic, death is the safest, most peaceful part of life. While this may seem depressing and maybe a little unsettling (underscored by the somewhat macabre effect of the soil being poured onto the box with the microphone) I still see it as a somewhat uplifting note at the end of a rather mournful song. That is, though the earth is lamenting the fact that mankind is destroying and that they don't think about the fact that they are part of it, they will eventually find the peace, in death, that they seem so unable to find in life. Again, these are simply my views on this song. I'm a bit of a tree-hugger (though to be fair, Thrice are too, to an extent) and I see these sonnets more as a cry for mankind to respect nature rather than subjugate it. One of the things I like most about the arts is that meaning lies in the eye/ear of the beholder, so while Thrice may have meant something in particular with any given song, no interpretation is wrong. |
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