| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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"In the end, making anyone feel stupid, ignorant, ill informed or uneducated because they don't agree with your opinion is a waste of intellect, time, and typing." I'm honestly not trying to fight here, but what you're saying you're against is kind of what you're doing... I get you don't agree with all the nitpicking and whatnot but it's related to freedom of speech so people should really be able to stand up for and/or express their beliefs should they choose to - if that happens to be through the discussion brought about by a song. Art is going to be controversial, so why not embrace the controversy and discussion and revel in the debate rather than shoot it down? |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
| I like you! Does that count?? | |
| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Haha, I mean it's not the best idea to keep things bottled up because they tend to explode in an unpleasant fashion. Very hard to get rid of the stains. |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Makes plenty of sense; I've known people who SEEM the most confident but are really quite insecure about themselves for one reason or another. I know what you mean about the 'shut up' business; I know people who purposefully bait me into debates by saying something that's a gross generalisation or something they know I feel strongly about, just to get a rise out of me... and it works... because I like bestowing my knowledge onto others... a lot... |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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People are going to have conflicting views but the most important thing is to stand by your's; don't change who you are or what you believe in, simly because it's easier or other people think you should. You're being yourself; there's nothing wrong with that. You are who you are and who you are is something to be proud of. |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Of course I don't think you're evil! You're strong minded, is all! You're passionate - that's not evil! Haha, I know what you mean :) |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Haha - use whatever's at your disposal, I s'pose! :P *pats fire blanket* |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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As I said; it's perfectly fine to express one's own opinion. Personal attacks like that are just ridiculous, pointless and meaningless. I never fight fire with fire; I fight fire with water and a fire extinguisher. |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Yeah, that was a low blow; you don't say that kind of stuff! I think that it's fair enough to have an opinion but personally criticising someone in an attempt to either further your argument or simply make the other person feel bad is not only wrong morally, but it causes any rationality to go flying out the window. And yes: I am back :P |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
| rationality* | |
| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Superkump: a rather low blow, don't you think? Everyone is entitled to their opinion and a method of expressing their opinion. It's the internet, for goodness' sakes! Worse things have been said and done! Yes, there has been a debate here but perhaps it would have been better to seek a higher ground and stated your opinion and/or facts about your point of view rather than stating "I don't like you, MissNeurotic. You're not a good person. The world and this website are less because of you." By doing that you just lost any credulity from your argument because you have abandoned any rationatily and made it a personal attack. Aside from that, you don't even know MissNeurotic aside from what a limited view you have read on here, and you attacking her as such is ridiculous and cruel. |
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| IAMX – Lolita Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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The book itself is by Vladimir Vladimirovich Nabokov. The girl is 12-years-old. QUOTE: "She was musical and apple-sweet ... Lola the bobby-soxer, devouring her immemorial fruit, singing through its juice ... and every movement she made, every shuffle and ripple, helped me to conceal and to improve the secret system of tactile correspondence between beast and beauty--between my gagged, bursting beast and the beauty of her dimpled body in its innocent cotton frock." |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
| Haha, that's okay, I can sympathise; I'm rather comfortable under my rock - it's nicely decorated and has a feature wall. | |
| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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Don't worry; computers break around me! I don't even need to touch them, just me being in the general vacinity triggers it! Go to www.hotmail.com and create an email account there. Once you've done that, go to http://get.live.com/messenger/overview and click "it get for free" and follow the prompts :) Hope to talk to you soon! If you need any help just email me and I'll give you a hand, or even if you just want a chat :) |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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Haha, no it's an instant messaging program, but email is just about the same thing, so I'm going to say yes :) Don't worry, computers have a tendancy to freak out when they're near me... I can work computers when they're working but, unless it's a simple problem, I get myself into strife... And I'm not just saying that because I 'feel sorry for you'; I promise :) You seem like a nice person and I'd love to have a chat sometime :) |
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| IAMX – Lolita Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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This song is fantastic although I think it has a bit of a dirty feel to it; like an older man lusting after a little girl. It's as though the man is trying to convince himself that she was asking for it and wanted it: "Always clean Always precocious She was the devil And she danced with the roses In the summer..." Precocious: characterized by or characteristic of exceptionally early development or maturity It's as though he's saying she looked and acted older and therefore she was old enough for him. (By the way, it says here "precautious"; it is actually "precocious".) Overall, a fantastic song! |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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What I mean, in a nutshell, is that intelligence doesn't mean you're a good person. Thank you for the compliment :) You seem like a lovely person, albeit passionate! If you want, add me on msn the_missing_fairy (at) hotmail (dot) com :) I'm always up for a chat :) |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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Brain function speaks in terms of our ability to solve problems, as well as memory and how 'complex' the wiring of our brain is. We do still have the instincts but it's absurd to think that it means humans have the ability to make sound and ethical moral decisions. I personally think the theory of creation is a lot of rubbish; for all the proof we have towards the theory of evolution I don't know how people can deny it. Whenever humans evolved from apes, we did not look the way we do now, therefore we were not 'created in God's image'. I don't know. I think everyone is entitled to their own views and lifestyles so long as they don't criticise mine or try to push their beliefs onto me, although I also think an INFORMED choice is something I look for in terms of credulity. If someone has looked at all the other options and possibilities and chosen the one that best suits them, then more power to them. And I know it's easier said than done - I really do know - I just hope that you progress past this point in your life onto a stage where you're able to completely be yourself around the people you want to be around. :) |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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says or does anything against them* instinct* |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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Rejection is a part of life, but just because you've been given the short end of the stick once or twice it doesn't mean it will happen every single time. Everyone judges everyone but those judgements are not necessarily negative. The best thing a person can achieve in life by way of socialising is having one or two fantastic friends, not a hundred false ones. Never try to change yourself to fit in with other people. The people you choose as friends should love you for who you are, not who you're pretending to be. If you be yourself, it means you will find genuine people who like you for you :) I understand what you're saying about people being 'selfish' about their children, but I think it's been integrated into our instincts to carry on our own genetic code so that our characteristics carry on and dominate. It has to do with Darwin's theory of 'survival of the fittest'; those who are able to best cope with and adapt to their own environment to survive and part of that surviving is passing on your DNA to the next generation. People defending their children when someone says anything against them is also defending themselves; THEY created this being with THEIR DNA and THEIR DNA will remain dominant and THEIR child will survive and adapt better than the other child. Human nature and instict can be tricky in times where we have evolved often past the need for such ingrained characteristics... but what can you do? No DNA manipulation in this time and place! |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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It's fantastic to be passionate about something! I love it when I find something I can get up on my soap-box about and rant until I've satisfied my opponent. Anxiety is a horrid thing to feel but just remember than it can never be as bad as you think it is. You really haven't anything to lose if you put yourself into social situations - you really haven't. I know it's easier said than done and often rationality doesn't play a part in one's emotions, but if you have than mantra in your head of "it's all okay, no matter what happens" it really helps. :) You have two reasons to live, as far as I can tell from this short interaction. Fighting for animal rights and living in general; think off all the experiences you have the chance of living through. |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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I honestly do care about animal rights; I'm hugely against animal testing and I'm a member of green peace and actively campaign against cruelty to animals. Humans don't have a right to test animals. However, I do eat free-range white meat. I think if people want to vegan then be vegan. I am not uptight; I'm structured. I've done debating for years and know how to rebut. I am immature and childish a majority of the time, but that doesn't mean I am when I'm attempting to make a point. I am honestly sympathetic towards your plight with depression; I've had many personal connections with depression and it's a horrible thing. |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
| has* | |
| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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Regardless of your own ethnicity, insulting someone whilst pointing out their nationality in a negative light is racism. "Racism: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race." SOURCE: wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn Also, just a suggestion; find a synonym for the word "stupid"; everyone's become desensitised to it and it loses meaning and it's not an argument; the way you're formulating your arguments and rebuttals make you seem like you're making a personal attack on those you oppose, which only leads to further disassociating them from your point of view. People don't want to agree with people who insult them for obvious reasons. Furthermore, when someone makes an example of another situation, as mudkips did with religion, it is not saying the two are one and the same; what it is doing is relating the issue to another that is more commonly known to the general population, thereby making it easier to understand and explain. I would suggest not seeing anything someone says against veganism as a personal attack; it isn't. It's their personal point of view which they are entitled to, as you are to your's (hence why you are getting into such a heated, indignant state of mind as your view is threatened by it's exact natural opposite). I think the best thing to do if someone insults your way of life is to take the higher ground and let it go; it means your opposition as nowhere to go and therefore no further arguments. I reiterate: choice choice choice choice choice. |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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MissNeurotic: I agree with you about animal wellfare and how it sucks the way humans over the years have been killing the planet to fuel their own selfish agendas; I never once disagreed. I do, however, disagree with your personal attacks on people who do happen to choose a different way of life to you. Also, and I have to say this and it can't be denied because the facts are there: until we find more intelligent life on other planets, humans are the superior race because we have the highest brain function. That can't be disputed. I'm not saying by any length that highest brain function means we are capable to make morally sound decisions which benefit every living creature. Here's the thing: if you want to make a reasonable point so people are more likely to see your point of view and be convinced by your arguments, you need to stay rational and stick to the facts. Putting in how you hate children or swedish is only going to undermine your argument and make people less likely to take you seriously. The issue here is not about whether humans are better or worse than animals, it's about personal choice in terms of lifestyle. Everyone deserves that choice. |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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All humans have sharp teeth! not so much baby teeth but adult teeth, yes! (I'm a biology nut, excuse me). The front teeth (excluding k9s) are made for cutting; it's the way they're shaped. The k9s are for tearing at meat. The molars are for grinding both meat and plant matter. "Omnivorism The key category in the discussion of human diet is omnivores, which are defined as generalized feeders, with neither carnivore nor herbivore specializations for acquiring or processing food, and who are capable of consuming and do consume both animal protein and vegetation. They are basically *opportunistic* feeders (survive by eating what is available) with more generalized anatomical and physiological traits, especially the dentition (teeth). All the available evidence indicates that the natural human diet is omnivorous and would include meat. We are not, however, required to consume animal protein. We have a choice... As far back as it can be traced, clearly the archeological record indicates an omnivorous diet for humans that included meat. Our ancestry is among the hunter/gatherers from the beginning. Once domestication of food sources began, it included both animals and plants... Relative number and distribution of cell types, as well as structural specializations, are more important than overall length of the intestine to determining a typical diet... Nearly all plant eaters have fermenting vats (enlarged chambers where foods sits and microbes attack it). Ruminants like cattle and deer have forward sacs derived from remodeled esophagus and stomach. Horses, rhinos, and colobine monkeys have posterior, hindgut sacs. Humans have no such specializations..." SOURCE: http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm (Vegetarian Resource Group) I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but I do know my stuff about teeth; biology student who has the text book and resource guide (hence the above source) in front of her as she types. Again: choice people! Free society! Freedom of speech, choice and all that jazz! |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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I'm never said I wasn't uptight - I do get tense when people create conflict for having different beliefs or backgrounds. Plants do have a circulatory system; they can reproduce sexually; and when they finish their last 'gulp' of water they let out a high pitched sound that can't be heard my human ears. They grow and turn towards the sun. I was not suggesting plants feel pain but they ARE alive UNTIL you pick/harvest them - then they are DEAD; if you're talking about how it's wrong to eat something that's dead you need to consider this. And quite frankly, simply because someone states their nationality does not mean everyone has free-range to have a go at it. If someone said they were American or English or Australian, that doesn't mean anyone has the right to call them a "dumb American", "stupid Brit" or "ignorant Australian" because it's called racism if you criticise someone for their ethnicity - if you think they're "dumb", "stupid" or "ignorant" say that but be prepared for a backlash; it's human nature to defend one's integrity (which is why everyone is discussing this with such enthusiasm - people are defending their own way of life over that of another). As I keep saying: be a vegan if you want to be a vegan; be an omnivore if you want to be an omnivore - it's a matter of choice and people should have that right to choose! |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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oh and: "swedish people are stupid anyways."? Wow... low blow... which demonstrates your lack of plausible evidence and lack of an ACTUAL rebuttal... If you want to be taken seriously, make serious points to your case; unjustly and unrelatedly criticising your opponent takes away any credulity behind your argument. |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
| don't talk about being* | |
| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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"Besides, I will never understand why most people doesn't seem to think it's gross to eat something that's dead." So... you eat fruits and vegetables while they're still alive? Bite them right off the earth? Or do they riggle through you and grow in your small intestine? You want to be vegan, be vegan but if someone chooses to eat meat, don't criticise them. What's more, talk about being wrongfully criticised if you too are criticising others for doing the same thing you are; expressing your own beliefs and point of view. |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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meat* at the meat* A note: while we are able to eat it raw and we did hundreds of years ago, it is a personal choice to eat it cooked as a taste preference and is a safety precaution to kill off any bacteria which may be found in the meat (possibly off the 'horribly dirty slaughter house' floors they must be left to decompose in summer heat). |
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| Clutch – When Vegans Attack Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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"Second of all- people aren't suppose to eat meat. Have you ever seen a lion or a cheetah cook it's food before digestion?" Okay, while I agree with you about the breaking down process of meat, freezing the meats stops this breakdown and generally speaking (I'm not talking every single moment, so don't accuse me of generalising) meat is frozen relatively soon after the "slaughter". Meat is, in fact, meant to be eaten by humans - it's how we progressed as a species - how our brains developed and forced humans to think strategically in order to obtain the meat. And then, they DID more often than not, eat it raw. Also, the way our teeth are designed (incisors and k9s for cutting and tearing and the meat and molars to grind both meat and and plant-matter we eat) means that we are actually made for eating meat. If we weren't and we were only meant to eat plant life, not only would our digestive system be completely different proportions and our appendix would still be functional to break down the cellulose. Here's the thing: if you want to be a vegan be a vegan; if not, don't be. It's a personal choice. Accept it as a personal choice and don't push your beliefs on others and attempt to undermine their authority and belief system. |
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