| Massive Attack – Saturday Come Slow Lyrics | 15 years ago |
| notice at the very end of the song, theres the start of a sample of radiohead's backdrifts. very sly :P | |
| Suicide Silence – No Pity For A Coward Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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it's about suicide...lol how appropriate oi and you's fighting about the whole religious bullshit, you don't need to. "where's your god?" simply is meant to convey this person's despair, it's not necessarily pointed. that said, there's no arguing, this fella is either atheist, agnostic or nihilist. if you find that offensive, too fucking bad, cause it's your beliefs that are irrational, not his. |
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| Portishead – Strangers Lyrics | 17 years ago |
| I agree with tuesdaymush completely | |
| Massive Attack – Teardrop Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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The video clip is of a birth, and I get the feeling it might be something to do with crossing a threshold and stepping out of one's comfort zone. The birth might be metaphor for losing someone who had given you love, shelter and security (the womb in the video clip) and now you must fare on your own against the elements (like the baby being born into the world). Anyways, it's a truly great song. Massive attack is musical genius, powerful minimalism. Too bad I was very young when they were at their height. |
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| Muse – Thoughts of a Dying Atheist Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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I like Muse but I can't really relate to this song. I'm an atheist and I have never had any fear of death. Death isn't some dualistic binary opposite of life, it's simply the absence of life. So death isn't a conscience thing, it's like a coma. You'll never actually experience death because when you die there won't be anyone there to experience it. So what's this fear people keep talking about? Death is inanity, absolute inanity. Anything beyond death is irrelevant. Oh and we shouldn't generalize here. Though many theists assert the existence of an afterlife, believing in God does not, in any way, necessitate an afterlife. If there is a God, maybe he thinks that one life is enough for us. I hate the way people seem to assume that believing in a God automatically jackpots eternity. People don't seem to ever really consider this, one of the many acts of ignorance perpetrated religion. |
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| Tool – The Patient Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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It's about the prospect of something better after life, similar to Parabola. It's basically a person weighing the options: death being absolute, or death leading to something else, and the person is trying to keep faith, trying to convince himself there will be something better, something to look forward to, a future after death, because, otherwise, everything the person has lived for, everything he has suffered, every obstacle he has overcome, every time of happiness, has all been in vain if there is nothing after. The person thinks that, if there is no experience after death, then life is irrelevant, a insignificant fleeting dream with no ultimate direction. I think this is a decision or a belief that everyone must make at some point in their life. Keep in mind, I'm absolutely certain Maynard isn't referring to religion. In fact, Maynard seems to stick well clear of it. I think the parabola that Maynard has explored in Lateralus is simply a very abstract concept of hope. It's definately spiritual, but it's not religious. In this song, Maynard seems to rest on a point with his choice unmade. It seems as though he is almost despairing because, although this 'parabola' is a source of solace, he can't quite bring himself to believe it, or he is at least having doubts. As for me, I'm an atheist and I think there isn't anything 'supernatural' beyond the end of life. However, in the end, aren't we all just stardust anyway? We are immortal. We will always be here, in one form or another. Whether we are conscious to experience it is irrelevant. We have our time to live, and when it is over, our ashes, our legacy, will become the foundation for the lives of others, the foundation of the universe in fact. So what's there to despair about? I couldn't ask for a more beautiful legacy. |
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| Tool – Right in Two Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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I just read another silly post of yours Vulken. America the country that stands for freedom...? Wow! Turns out you ARE an ignorant fark. America stands for its own interests, just like every other nation, religion, individual or organisation in the world. And Muslim fascists? Thats rich come from the keyboard of what looks like a true American patriot. America is the most fascist country in the west, and the sooner you wake up to the hypocritical, oil-guzzling, selfish, war-mongering, foolish, elitist reality of the 'Land of Opportunity' and stop guzzling on the American media-teat of misinformation, propaganda and hypnosis, the better. You're as ignorant as you are naive and I would have said your blindness is alright because you're still just a kid, but the thing is I am 16 too, and my head is obviously a lot clearer than that miasma, or vacuum, take your pick, in your head. Get it straight though, I have nothing against Americans. I only have a problem with fools, and Vulken is one of them... |
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| Tool – Right in Two Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Vulken, Hitler wrote Mein Kampf yes. But guess who he owed his holocaust strategy to. Martin Luther, the monk who began Protestant Christianity, which means almost any branch of Christianity other than Catholism, is also known for how he wrote a 9 step plan of how to deal with the 'Jewish problem', which basically detailed instructions to confiscate Jewish possessions then systematically kill them. Yes, the father of most of American Christiandom was also a rabid anti-semetic who, if given the same power as Hitler, would have eliminated the need for Hitler's racism because, if Luther had had power, he would have initiated the holocaust 500 years early! And, surprise surprise, Hitler found and used Martin's plan which resulted in the Holocaust. So if you want to relate Hitler to any religion, you can relate him to your good old friend, the father of Protestantism, Martin Luther, who has disturbingly inspired fledging religious scholars for hundreds of years. Bet you didn't know Protestantism was created by a genocidal madman. Though I agree that Islam is an undesirable religion, elevating Christianity above other religions is simply irrational dogmatism. As well as this, please explain how the hypothesis of a God can be in any way possible? If the universe is so ordered that it requires an even more orderly creator, isn't that a contradiction? If you follow that line of reasoning, God, being infinitely ordered, would require an infinitely more ordered creator, and that creator in turn would require an even greater creator, and so on and so forth. That, my friend, is an infinite regress. And that means that your theory FAILS! Atheism shits all over theism in every way possible... |
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| Tool – Right in Two Lyrics | 17 years ago |
| You may have already mentioned it (I'm too lazy to read all these posts) but the 'writing' Maynard says humans fight over may be a reference to religious holy texts. So maybe he's saying that all the abrahamic religions in the end basically believe in this same eden, the same afterlife, the same God, so why should they fight over insignificant intricacies as they are doing so all over the globe? Or maybe he's being less specific and saying that EVERY religion on Earth is, in the end, trying to address the same innate feelings (or illusions) of spirituality so we all should stop being so intolerant and just recognize each opinion's right to exist. Just my thoughts. Too bad I'm an atheist.. | |
| Isis – So Did We Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Panopticon, in my interpretation, is an extended metaphor on each individual's legacy as a human being. 'Skin worn thin' is a metaphor for the trials and tribulations that wear us or break us during our lifetime. 'Our bones exposed' describes how these obstacles show what we are made of and make our legacy.'Life reduced to ticks' is a reference to the way people with no direction or motivation may seem to be simply waiting to die, their life defined simply by the the tick of the clock. This first stanza is about how we can build a legacy by giving our lives directions, or we can watch the clock tick.. 'From forest caves and azure skies We crashed upon this earth' perhaps means that while enduring hard times we hit rock bottom on the parabola of existence so to speak. 'The years they passed and so did we But resistance would be brought' is basically saying, to me, that as inevitable death looms ever closer, we realize that the only way to resist death, the only thing that transcends death, is the legacy we leave. This is probably nothing like what they intended but I think the best meaning is subjective. |
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| Tool – Sober Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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its about the inevitability and frustration of in. your sins simply build up as you age and you can't start over with a clean sheet. instead of judging you on your character we are told we are disgusting because of our past sins. 'Jesus, won't you fucking whistle something but the past and done? ' this quote is saying how god only blows the whistle on sins that are past and done and can't be changed no matter how much we regret. its another strike at rediculous christianity. |
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| Tool – Schism Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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this song could be interpreted as a portrayal of a split in some sort of religion or faith, however i think it is much more simply about relationships in general. it talks about how relationships are not perfect and there are always rough spots. but these rough spots are what allows us to appreciate relationship how two people can overcome obstacles and regain communication through all the odds. the fact that the relationship is always fleeting and chaotic is what gives the harmony of moments beauty anyways someone's probably already said this but yeh meh... |
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| Tool – Eulogy Lyrics | 18 years ago |
| its simply an analogy using jesus to make a statement that anyone who is intellectually infirm enough to follow anything where the individual is required to aspire to some 'higher ideal' and is taught they are unworthy and insignificant and loses their individuality by being sucked into a sort of collectivist irrational faith engine made up of other fools like them ..eg religion, the military, etc. is an idiot. | |
| Meshuggah – Sickening Lyrics | 18 years ago |
| obviously about religion, particularly the abrahamic faiths, which misguide some into believing there is something after death while our real life, the only life we get, slowly ticks away until our death and we waste our lives preparing an afterlife that does not exist. | |
| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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oh i just read all the comments. i think y'all need to chill out a little. the topics strayed a little. its like a chat room now. vulken no offense intended but you don't have to be so articulate and formal if you don't want to. you're putting a fair bit of effort into your writing is all. =P |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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lol vulken you've been on this a forum a long time...i keep coming back too cos its interesting. iv been on holidays in the middle of the aussie outback for a week now and its getting real boring. um pattona i live in australia so unless you're aussie, and im guessing you're american, it wouldn't work sorry :) anyways what the hell are you guys talking about now? rabble rabble rabble it seems. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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oh pattona's a chick. sorry pattona, my bad. thats the problem with the net. sorry i dont actually talk to girls like that. not because im sexist, just cos its not right i reckon. so yeh sorry my bad. but no i am quite secure about my manhood thankyou very much...enough said. :) |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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lol yeh nytemunkey there are a few in denial ay. i think most have accepted it though oh by the way vulken.....yeh that pretty much somes it up |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
| lol pattona your precious almost are the most shitty garage punk band in the world. stop being such a doosh and go eat bananas with the rest of your monkey faggot punks. | |
| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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to put it bluntly, no, thats not what dark matter is. a black hole is made from matter that can emit elctromagnetic radiation but is so compressed that, once inside its event horizon, electro magnetic radiation isn't fast enough to even breach its gravitational pull and the force required to break the gravitational momentum becomes theoretically infinite! dark matter on the other hand is hypothetical matter of unknown composition that does not emit or reflect enough electromagnetic radiation to be observed directly, but whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter. it is nothing like a blackhole however because it is relatively not very dense and is comparable to the density of most gases. there is so much of it in the universe, much more than 'visible matter', that, if it had the mass of a blackhole, the universe would simply spontaneously implode. the only reason there can be so much of it and it doesn't tear apart the fabric of the universe apart is because it doesn't have much mass. of course, though, as you said, it is just a theory. but it has got a bit of evidence, as much as we can get on things of this nature. interesting though anyways ive got to go ill bbl |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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another thing. what if even numbers are not absolute. what if they're relative as well. its impossible to imagine this because our minds are completely reliant on the existance of absolutes when it comes to numbers, in fact absolute numbers are one the of the fundamentals of human reason and logic, but that doesn't necessarily mean they must be absolute. mind you it probably wouldn't be too rash to assume that we'd probably literally die of confusion if we encountered a situation where there were numbers that didn't match our concept of numbers. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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the basic defintion of the universe is just all reality. so yes the physical (or at least with mass) universe is probably expanding, although it is a hard claim to make and you can't be too sure about these kinds of things, but honestly how can we know that the universe is finite? we have never been closer than a few hundred billion light years from the edge of the known universe. so who can say how large the universe is? in the grand scheme of the universe i personally don't think we are that significant. to us, yes, of course our lives are completely relevant. but we have never made any impact on more than than our own planet, except maybe for a few footprints and a flag on the moon. so unless we are the only life in the universe, which is probably unlikely, given the vastness of reality, and equally demoralising, or theres some other spectrum of reality that we dont know about, which there could defintately be, which we have a profound effect upon and we dont even know it, otherwise, no, i dont think we are of much significance in relation to the universe. and ok maybe why exists but it is hard to give it much importance when we cant even properly define what we mean when we ask why. its like in that movie hitchhikers guide to the galaxy or whatever where they asked why and the computer bluntly said they were idiots because they weren't even asking a real question. thats the problem with why. its so unspecific that its hard to know what you're really asking. until we know enough about reality we won't even be able to ask a why question specific enough to actually get an answer. hmm about perception i've decided my argument was irrelevant because firstly if we think relativism is probably right then there isn't an absolutely true way to percieve reality anyway. the other reason is because theres no point in fretting over something we cannot change anyway. we cannot change our make up or our senses when we are using the same impaired senses to make the change. besides a different way of percieving reality would probably destroy our minds anyway. i just thought it was interesting to note that there could be infinite ways to acknowledge reality and we only see a thin thead of them. i mean think of this. the vast majority of the known universe is thought to be made up of dark matter and energy that we cannot detect with the electromagnetic spectrum. we only think its there because we can see the effect of its mass and energy on other matter that can be sensed using the electromagnetic spectrum. imagine if there are other lifeforms that exist that can see a certain type of dark matter or energy that we can't see but that can't see matter that is sensed using the electromagnetic spectrum. the energy and matter we see would be dark matter and energy to them. they would probably have very different understanding and perception of the universe. to them maybe the universe is bigger or smaller, faster or slower. maybe they cannot even percieve measures such as speed or size or even number but they can percieve measures we have never and could never comprehend. i just find that fansinating. maybe the origin of the universe is something that our minds can not comprehend not because we can't understand how it is done but because we don't even understand what it is anyways i find it very interesting. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
| i apologise for being a asshole before | |
| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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how can we even be sure about anything when, if just one fundamental feature of how we percieve our own existance turned out to be flawed or wrong, it would subvert all our undertsanding. how do we even know anything is real. if humans are such insignificant, unintelligent and oblivious beings then how can i base belief on human logic. ive decided before we can ask a question like is there a god, there are infinite other things we must know. so 'why' has sort of become irrelevant. why is infinite. everytime we ask why and get an answer we answer that answer with another why, like a child's sardonic game of questions. if you get what i mean why doesn't even exist really. its not decisive enough to exist. its all relativity and relativism. this discussion has truly changed my perception, ive sort of had an ephiphany i think. i feel open to discussion guys so come on throw in your ideas. =) |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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fuck im tired.. i cant even think now |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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i decided to read all the posts since pg 19 and jesus this whole discussion has escalated...probably cos i keep commenting at like 3am =P.....and yeh it probably is my fault and i think i just had an ephiphany, i HAVE been fairly close minded. so close minded i didn't even remember what we were arguing about and started going on about nothing. i dont know guys. none of here know anything. we are all insignificant unintelligent animals who dont know shit. so who am I become stubborn about questions noone will ever know. you two dont know shit either. none of us do. so fuck it. take it as it comes guys. im going to be open minded from now on. everyone should be. here what we know: existance exists. thats all we know. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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when i said that people choose solace over reason, i didnt mean desire makes the choice for you, i just mean it will obviously influence your decision greatly. an unemotional computer which calculated probability and didn't have emotional factors involved would conclude there is no god because god is improbable because there is no evidence. thats my only objection. people seem to answer the question of an improbable being (humans) with an even more improbable being (god). about me running in circles vulken and eyewideopen, the thing is im actually at least producing an argument. you just keep going on about how im ignorant and shit when you're too ignorant to even realise im not even targeting you! im targeting organised religion and since you've both clarified you don't believe then why are you taking offense! honestly you two both keep erupting into anger and saying i should respect others beliefs everytime you can't think of a rebuke for my arguement. and then after you've gotten all fired up, i have to go and apologize for how i've so deeply hurt your feelings. im not apologising next time. you two can stop being so temperamental. im only suggesting things, this is only a discussion.all im saying is that god is unlikely. i don't know what your always getting fired up about anyway. we're all agnostic here. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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yep discrediting is a word =P i knew the inescapable logic part was gonna earn me an ear lashing. i didnt mean it like that, in fact i didnt mean it at all, by saying it i sounded completely self righteous, just as self righteous as any dogmatic fanatic...i was tired and getting ahead of myself and i didnt even realise what i was saying...sorry guys im really not that self righteous, i read my arguments and i realised i was starting to sound elitest. i really wasn't targeting your beliefs.......i was just saying that if the strongest argument is the argument that assumes the least then atheism is technically the best (im not even atheist, im loosely agnostic). and i was more meaning that relative to ants we would be like gods....i didnt mean to state everything is relative and im sorry about that. one thing is though that we have good evidence that complex comes from simple, we have no evidence at all that intelligence necessarily designed/created us. i think both your opinions are well educated and since we are all arguing about something that can't be proved theres no point. although i will say vulken i do like budhism and the reason i dont like religion, especially the abrahamic religions, is that they have such an attrocious record for inciting violence, genocide, human rights abuse and any other number of things. you might say this isn't what the religions want, its just people exploiting them but the problem is that without the religion people woudn't have been exploited in the first place so the problem might not have even started. religion just seems like a unneccessary risk. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
| lol ill be waiting for it vulken but i must say iv sort of given up. no point teaching logic to someone who preaches faith. (no offense intended) =) | |
| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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i can respect someone's decision to conclude that there was some supreme being (not even necessarily benevolent, good and evil are silly principles that do not exist outside of theory) who might have had a part in our creation (not a god because every thing is relative, eg to ants we would be so advanced and big and powerful we'd look like gods yet we know quite well we arent) but how people jump from the vague yet fairly reasonable idea of there being supreme beings to something so rediculously specific and falsifiable as christianity or islam or other organised religions escapes me. anyways i think its become fairly clear that, despite the unescapable logic of my arguments, people will always sacrifice reason for solace. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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when you think about it though, to jump from the step 'the universe is complex' to the step 'there must have been a god designer' is a huge extrapolation and is not a rational step. besides basing an argument that there must be a designer simply because the universe is complex is silly and trips over itself because if beings as complex as humans are so complex they must be designed, then this designer must be millions of times more complex. based on your argument he must be designed too. who designed him. and who designed his creator. it just goes on and on. its also important to remember that coming to a rational conclusion about there being a god will always be biased because of the emotional factors involved, our reason will be overcome by our hope and desire. every individual wants there to be a god. we long for one. one finds solace in believing there is someone looking after them or some benevolent 'something more'. so it will always be hard to put reason before desire when asking, is there a god? |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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also about the 'why?" thingo how science answers "how" and theology answers "why?" the thing is that these are misconceptions. science is not how things work. it is who, what, where, why, when, and how. it is about everything. it is about everything that defines reality. not just simply to answer "how" another misconception is that theology is just about why? theology is about who, what, where, when, why, and how as well. the difference is theology makes answers then creates evidence for them. science finds evidence which then leads to the answer. theology and religion answer all questions. for example: christianity....who? adam and eve. what? cursed mankind to mortality. where? in the garden of eden. when? 6000 yrs ago according to how many generations betweeen them and jesus. how? god banished them why? cause they decided to disobey god and eat the apple. the reason we say religion answers only why is because it is proved wrong every time it tries to answer the other questions. why is the only thing we cannot disprove because it is subjectual, because religion assumes the reason why a man may kill another man isn't because they obviously didn't like eachother but because there was some divine plan. all assumptions, no evidence. as usual. science answers all these questions INCLUDING WHY and empirically and rationally proves its answers correct without fail (because if it cannot empirically and rationally prove its answers correct it becomes religion....lol) the only reason people accept religion's unsubstantiated and illogical answer 'why' yet cannot accept science's empiracally and rationally proven answer 'why' is because religion's answer always sounds prettier, because they WANT to believe religion's happy fairytale answer not because they think its the likely answer. science always has an answer a bit too cold, a bit too cruel, A BIT TOO REAL... |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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vulken i did not mean to say that we can't believe or understand how queer the universe is eg. light taking ages to get to earth. i just meant that it wouldn't impulsively occur to us. if one learns that light takes ages to get to earth then they'll be able to connect the dots themself and they'll understand the logic and it'll seem obviously simple. but what i was meaning was that if someone wasn't thinking about it in depth and had not learnt about it then they would never just assume that it worked like that because our mind isn't familiar with these concepts. and about the infinity thing, we cannot in fact comprehend infinity. we can understand its principal, something that never ends, but we cannot imagine or comprehend it tangibly. you said that we could think of it by saying for example 6 and 2/3 is just infinite number of 0s then infinite number of 6s basically. this doesn't mean we understand what infinity actually is and its nature because you are basing your argument on mathematical principles, on words. let me explain. 6 is not in fact 6. 6 is just a word that we use to express the existance of 6 things. if you tried to explain to someone who had come from an alternate universe where numbers do not exist what six actually is, that is its nature, then youd be stuck. itd be like trying to explain to a blind person what the colour green is like to experience. in the same way, we can easily say what the word infinity expresses, that is a never ending or beginning amount of things. however we cant actually comprehend the true nature of what infinity is with our finite brains. we cant imagine what it would be like to actually experience infinity. do you understand what im saying? :) what you seem to forget is that i was open to the idea of organised religion...i even steadfastly believed in it! so i did learn from it. but with a little more experience vulken you'll find that you'll either lie to yourself and leave your brain at home when you go to church or the synagogue or the mosque and believe it because it gives life purpose, no matter how misguided, and makes you feel less insignificant...or you'll discard it because it reeks of human corruption and simplified answers that appeal to the mindless masses of religious sheep. i discarded it 5 yrs ago when i was 11. and don't get me wrong... i am open to the concept of cosmic beings far greater than ourselves who may be responsible for the universe. but ORGANISED religion always loves to turn a genuinely deep and relevant question into a fairytale. the theologians are a bunch of intellectually barren dogmatic fools who like to pretend they are wise. in your "god is timeless" argument you've made a mistake. you see its based on the assumption that god is in fact timeless. so it doesn't really answer my argument because youre answering an empirical question with a unempirical answer. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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i think its important to remember that the question why? is always subjectual and often the line that defines between the concepts of why and how becomes difficult to distinguish. if a man murdered another and people tried to explain why then: the scientist would say electrical signals in the brain triggered a chemical release of hormones which made him do it, the psycologist would say that subconscious impulses given to the man in his early childhood made him lash out and do it, the theologian would say he did it because he was sinful, and the child would say someone was being mean to him and provoked him. all of these explanation are credible in the eyes of different people with different opinions. 23 i have have also found it interesting. humans cannot understand the concept of infinity, nor can we understand how atoms made up almost completely of empty space could make up diamonds that feel to us impenetrable, nor can we fathom how the stars are so far away from us that even light takes millions of years to reach us from them meaning that we are effectively staring into a time warp, we are seeing the stars as they were millions of yrs ago and if they had died since then we wouldn't even know for another few million yrs. the hubble telescope has even seen galaxies so far away that we see them as they were many billions of yrs ago. yet our mind cannot comprehend this. as the scientist richard dawkins, a revolutionary who i admire for his bravery to critisize and question the assumptions of society, liked to say. us humans evolved to live in what he calls 'middle world' and we can only understand things of medium size, of medium speed. we cannot understand the cosmic enormity of quantum physics simply because we didnt evolve to and we dont need to understand it to survive...as the cliche goes, we weren't meant to know. that is why we constantly use algebraic symbols and mathematical equations to describe it all. our language is not sufficient to express it nor are our brains. the answer to existance is a wordless thing and a thingless word. this is one the main reasons i discard religion. now we (educated people) know the enormity and complexity of the universe and existance itself how can we accept such simple and shallow answers that religion gives us? simple. we can't. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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vulken what you've said about god reading the future is an interesting point. i've thought about this too and come to the conclusion that whether directly intended or not this portrays god quite negatively. for example homosexualism. in the bible homosexualism is presented as a terrible sin that will lead to an eternity in hell. yet today through science we have discovered that homosexualism isn't a choice, it is either caused by situational environmental factors or by genes. this is cruel in a way on gods part because if homosexuals can't choose their sexuality, in fact if god is omnipotent then he would choose that they become homosexual, then it is cruel for god to sentence them to hell for something he decided they would do and they never had a say in it. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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about the big bang thing. i think many creationists use that argument that matter can't just appear and that someone must have put it there. this argument is what is called a infinite regress. this meaning that the argument destroys itself because if you are going to argue that the universe must have been made by someone, in this case god, then who made god? this means the argument trips over its point. besides its easier to believe dead rock matter has always existed or spontaneously came into existance than believe that an infinitely complex powerful and immense living being with boundless consciousness (god) just sprang into existance out of nothing. but of course everones entitled their opinion, or at least in this politically correct age they do. but the problem with organised religion is it restricts people to tunnel vision. they cannot be open-minded and be open to new ideas if those ideas conflict with their religion. in this way, organised religion is sort of anti-progressive...it refuses stubbornly to accept its flaws let alone rewrite itself when new evidence is put on the table which disproves it. although everyone is entitled their opinion sometimes this seems silly as sometimes talking to a religious person is like talking to a friend with skitzophrenia. they think they have some new friend but you know its only an illusion, a figment of their imagination yet at the same time you can't tell them theyre dilusional because its politically correct for everyone to have their own opinion, no matter how ludicrous. religion remains the only uncritised branch of human superstitional insanity from a rational point of view (no offense intended). i hope you understand my point. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
| im taking on a lighter tone because im sure we'd all rather this be a discussion than an argument :) | |
| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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i apologize guys, my last 2 posts were a little harsh...i was having a bad day :) i was only singling out christianity because most westerners, hence most people on this site, immediately connotate the word 'god' with christianity and the bible. its sort of become cliche. this means most people accept or dismiss the idea of greater powers based only on christianity's somewhat fanciful and shallow interpretation. i think that social religion like christianity or islam (in fact all the abrahamic based religions) is wrong although open-minded faith (i stress open-minded) in something greater out there is fine as long as its rational belief, (most world religions don't fall into rational). i think that atheism is not the right word for my beliefs. i think im an agnostic. i don't rule out the idea of a divine being beyond our understanding. i just think its very unlikely. i think that if there is a god, its not the god that is represented in any religion mankind has invented so far. i also firmly believe that science will be able to answer the question of is there a god. if there is such thing as the spirit or god we will one day find ways to find out with our increasing knowledge of reality and how the universe works and what it is and why things do things, which is accredited to science not to religion. also id like to say that a common misunderstanding of agnostics is that they are 50/50 on religion verses no god at all. this isn't true because most will completely discard religion. they just can't be sure of whether there is or isn't something out there. you can have no religion and still believe in god. i think too many people who reckon they believe in god but haven't thought enough about it simply label themselves christian or muslim or hindu or whatever simply because they live in a predominantly christian or muslim or hindu region of the world and they don't understand the action they are taking fully |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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this addresses 23thirdeyewide23 you have misunderstood i did not formulate my own opinion based on school lessons. my own observations and my own research led to my outspoken anti-theologian views. quite to the contrary of what you have said i was raised a catholic christian for the first 13 years of my life and am not ignorant of religion nor am i brainwashed into atheism. i am the opposite. i was desensitised to the contagious stupidity of religion when i was too young to know any better and i was brain washed into a view that christianity was right, no questions asked. but then something happened, i started thinking logically. i questioned the bible's teachings, and i realised it was written BY MEN to CONTROL MEN. i found out that in the original version of the bible jesus did not say he was nor was he ever proclaimed the divine son of god but instead 400 yrs AFTER his death the roman empire, upon making christianity its state religion, rewrote the bible and made jesus divine so that nobody could insult christianity without directly insulting god. and then the burkha of ignorance fell away and i saw religion for what it truely is...a political tool, a virus of the mind, the waste product of human superstition. i am no longer ignorant, fanatic, dogmatic and a fool simply because i questioned. so i ask you all, please please open your minds and question these beliefs...think rationally! think logically. use the mind you have that superstitious beliefs have oppressed. i do not dislike believers...im just dissapointed that you've fallen into the tar pit, into the trap. so i have studied religion furiously to understand it. as they say 'no one's enemy' |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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do you people honestly think that morals come from the bible?! if we did then this would be what we would ask our priest. Dear Father Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them. a) When I burn a bull on the altar of sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness. (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence. d) Lev 25-44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, providing they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians? e) I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev 11: 10) it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die? i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24: 10-16) Couldn’t we just bring them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev 20:14). I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging. Your faithful listener, P. Uzzled Every single reference to the bible in that is real. You can read the bible for yourself and you'll find them. And also people, if you wish to believe in a greater power but you know that the bible has more plot holes than useful advice then why label yourself christian. if you want to believe in a god just believe in a god, make your own belief. but dont keep labelling yourself as something your not. |
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| Meshuggah – Spasm Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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the first half of this song is definately about someone suffering from epilepsia. epilepsia is triggered often by lights, especially flashing lights and the song is full of refernces to flashign lights. the 4th and 5th paragraphs seem to suggest that some sort of medication saved this person suffering from epilepsia. but it also suggests that the god's wanted revenge for this person evading death and therefore evading them. it is interesting to note that many epilepsia medications increase women's chances of having babies with cognital malformations (deleterious physical birth defects) and the 6th paragraph talks about some sort of malformation or defect. i think the person is a epileptic woman who's, after being saved by some medication, tried to have a baby but the baby was born with some kind of malformation...the gods' revenge for her evading them...which explains the last line, 'lightborn malformation', lightborn refering to her epilepsia which was triggered by lights and malformation the birth defect her child has been born with. its a bit farfetched but its probably the best explanation yet. real hard song to decipher =P |
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| Meshuggah – Spasm Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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the first half of this song is definately about someone suffering from epilepsia. epilepsia is triggered often by lights, especially flashing lights and the song is full of refernces to flashign lights. the 4th and 5th paragraphs seem to suggest that some sort of medication saved this person suffering from epilepsia. but it also suggests that the god's wanted revenge for this person evading death and therefore evading them. it is interesting to note that many epilepsia medications increase women's chances of having babies with cognital malformations (deleterious physical birth defects) and the 6th paragraph talks about some sort of malformation or defect. i think the person is a epileptic woman who's, after being saved by some medication, tried to have a baby but the baby was born with some kind of malformation...the gods' revenge for her evading them...which explains the last line, 'lightborn malformation', lightborn refering to her epilepsia which was triggered by lights and malformation the birth defect her child has been born with. its a bit farfetched but its probably the best explanation yet. real hard song to decipher =P |
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| Meshuggah – Rational Gaze Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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either meshuggah are sophists or hcn said it right. i think this is definately about how the human mind percieves its own reality. like hcn said this song challenges the suggestion that what our mind percieves is in fact universal truth and whether perhaps insanity is in fact sane and sanity is insane. again meshuggah ponders questions that humanity is uncapable of ever answering |
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| Meshuggah – Rational Gaze Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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either meshuggah are sophists or hcn said it right. i think this is definately about how the human mind percieves its own reality. like hcn said this song challenges the suggestion that what our mind percieves is in fact universal truth and whether perhaps insanity is in fact sane and sanity is insane. again meshuggah ponders questions that humanity is uncapable of ever answering |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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Tempo is right. the main problem when people debate these topics is that we are talking in different languages. normally speaking, a theory is just someone's explanation for or opinion on something and requires NO EVIDENCE nor probability. myths and legends and dilusional hallucinations can fall into the normal definition of a theory. A SCIENTIFIC theory, like the scientific theory of natural selection or more commonly generalised as the scientific theory of evolution, on the other hand is a scientifically tested and trialed theory that has very substantial evidence and is backed by many different sources. christianity is a myth with no tangible evidence at all backing it. and vulken you said that science is unreliable cause it is constantly modified. i dont see why you find this to be a bad point. science can be changed as theories are proved wrong and other theories are gleaned from testing and evidence. contrary to what you said this is what makes science so reliable because it means we always have the most probable answer to our question. religion on the other hand, as vulken said, doesn't change its theories and, as a result, is gradually made obselete. we know for a fact that the world isn't 6000 yrs old, and we also know that a woman's period isn't punishment for eve eating the forbidden apple as the old testament says. however some fundamentalists will continue to blindly believe these myths, which we know are absurd, without question. so vulken, you see, the ability to question science and improve our understanding of it is science's strong point and religion's weak point. some christians will try to compromise and believe one thing from the bible but discard another eg. believe that jesus was resurrected but not believe in the story of noah's ark. but the problem with this is if i can choose which part of the bible i think is myth and which part is true then who's to say i cant say that the part of the bible that said jesus was son of god was a myth. basically if you do not follow a religion fundamentally then you cease to follow that religion and instead begin to create your own. we all know to fundamentally follow chrsitianity resonates obvious illogic stupidity. but if not following christianity fundamentally means you have created your own religion then that makes you a fiction author. another misunderstanding some people have is saying science can't answer all questions. they think this because they connotate science simply within chemistry or physics. the study of science is in fact the study of being. it is the study of everything that defines our reality, our very existence. science can answer all questions. some might say that science can answer the question 'why did the apple fall?' but it can't answer the question 'what is love?' or 'why do i have morals and feel bad about killing?' they think science cannot answer questions of spirituality. they are mislead because spirituality is a illusion. emotions and consciousness that some may think constitute a soul is, in fact, and often to our dissapointment, simply biological impulses and chemical reactions and electrical signal in our brain and nervous system. people may object to this because it makes us feel insignificant and like we live a hollow existance. these objections aren't actually based on evidence or logic but simply because we want to believe in something more...something divine...a word that might in fact be weightless there are more things i can on this topic but im am really really tired of writing =) |
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| Meshuggah – New Millennium Cyanide Christ Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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i just started listening to these guys and all i can say is wow! their songs are artworks........so brittle and intricate yet they hit like tidal surges.........fuckin sweet yeah this ones metaphorical meaning is about the way the bibles message is moved away form fundamentalist views so it can suit todays cultural values but loses its original meaning (i personally think that religion is delusional)...i think its literal message is sort of about the anti christ that was said by some eccentrics to come at the end of the second millenium AD |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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i must apologize firstly because i just read previous comments and my last comments topic has already been discussed, and secondly because my last comment wasn't really about the song meaning but about my own beliefs or lack there of. i would like to clarify that i believe there is probably in all likelyhood some sort of designer enitity, but to believe that jesus was the son of that designer, and that there is life after death, hell, heaven, is absurd. keep in mind that humankind has always created its own explanations for that which it cannot explain eg 500 yrs ago we thought evil sprite fairies caused milk to go sour, now we know its because of bacteria. religion is simply mankinds imaginative yet false attempt to explain the eternal and frustrating question, 'what is existance?' . we invent fiction to satisfy our craving for purpose. christianity is fantasy. |
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| A Perfect Circle – 3 Libras Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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all your suggestions seem good...i thought id just like to add that the lyrics 'Here I am expecting just a little bit Too much from the wounded' might be suggesting that maynard was always around and there for the girl when she was 'wounded' or hurt or in her lows and maynard is hoping that she might come to love him because of his loyalty but she just overlooks him completely. maynard might be sayin that the girl owes him love for his loyalty and devotion but she never makes up for his favours meaning that the scale or libra from the song title isn't balanced. |
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| A Perfect Circle – Judith Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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maynard shares my view religion is bullshit im not being ignorant i was raised catholic but i did the same thing maynard suggests we do in this song and questioned my beliefs. there is no valid reason to believe in christianity, no proof...you might as well believe in santa clause. the profile of a christian fits that of being clinically crazy...its a dillusional belief system...if jesus could say hes the son of god then who's to say its outrageous if i claim to be the son of god...if there is a god entity think about it...its a valid point...more valid than any basis of christian belief meh good song...guitar riffs have a cool dissonant sound |
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| Limp Bizkit – Hot Dog Lyrics | 18 years ago |
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LOL every1 sayin that lb have no melody are idiots...they use augmented scales as opposed to majors and minors scales. theyre bein experimental...if you dont like it go listen to ur pop music bullshit but dont critize their melodies when you couldnt differenciate a guitar from your boyfriends dick oh and all those christrian cultists sayin lb made them aggressive n violent, shut the fuck up! the only reason you were violent is cause youre a narrow minded retard which is exactly the same reason you've been fooled into believing that religious bullshit. religion is responsible for more war and death than hitler, pol pot and stalin put together...crusades, the inquisition (when the christrian church burnt hundreds of thousands of people at the stake because they didnt believe christrianity), terrorism (not just islamic), and most conflicts were all based on foolish religious superstitions which were exploited by power hungry men. oh and jesus was a bullshit artist. no other religion had a prophet so self righteous and absurd to call himself the one true god...pfft...evolution and science made religion obselete 100 yrs ago, get with the damn times... but you know what if you feel better pretending theres life after death so you feel you have purpose and hope and something to look forward to in life then go ahead. whatever floats your boat. you have a right to believe in whatever you want, i just get concerned about people's ignorance to the obvious fundamental motives of religion. anyways durst may be a bad lyricist but he has a good vocal style. wes was a great guitarist and their drummer and basist were tight...gud song...its not deep but its fun to listen to if i need something deep ill listen to the deftones... |
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