No Children

General Commenthow could anyone think things are going rather well for the narrator? are you kidding? he's obvoiusly depressed and in a total dead-end marriage that they can't get out of(they've hung on past the last exit). he hates himself and hates his wife, they're both drowning with no love at all between them anymore. he says "i hope you die, i hope we both die." how does that have any positive connotation?

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General Commenti hope many people don't ever have to relate to the song the way i do, but being someone who went through a bitter divorce... i see it a totally different way.

it's feeling trapped, and feeling like you're so far down in a hole that you'll never get out. it's hoping that you keep fighting, that bad things keep happening, because then at least you feel something.

knowing that it's a bad situation, but not having the will to do anything about it.

what cements it for me, is the part:

And I'd hope that if I found the strength to walk out
You'd stay the hell out of my way

that's what really got me.

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General CommentOh, and the biggest reason he curses and despises her so much is because the very fact that he has to continue seeing her face every day is because HE is a cowardly, weak little man. He can't walk away, because he's too depressed by now to do much but be miserable. So he just sits there and takes it and gets more disgusted and depressed. "I hope you die. I hope we both die." Think about it.

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General CommentI think what everyone's trying to get at here -- and what makes this song so great -- is that it's about the very fine line between love and hate. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference, and our narrator certainly isn't indifferent. You don't have murder/suicide fantasies about someone you don't care about. But then, you can only hate someone, really hate them, if you've let them close enough to feel like an inseparable part of you. The irony here is that this song is all about "hope" -- almost every line starts with that word. It's just that hope isn't necessarily a pleasant thing. The narrator literally can't imagine a future without his wife -- that's love -- but then the future he _can_ imagine is pretty horrible. If you've ever put all your emotional eggs in one basket, you'll know what he means.

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General CommentThis song is depressing, but also very well written.

My favourite line is: "I hope we come out with a fail-safe plot
to piss off the dumb few that forgave us."

(funny I'm listening to this song at this very moment)

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General Commenti read this interview about the mountain goats and it said that the alpha couple is this alcoholic couple who he wrote several albums from the perspective of. so no, iagoAdmirer, your interpretation is almost the opposite of the song. also, i read that the mountain goats wanted to stop writing about these people, hence the "i hope you die/ i hope you both die".. its not about him as a person.

whats remarkable about this song is its accuracy in portraying alcoholism. if you know any alcoholics closely, you know that they like their way of life as much as it kills them to. they are like walking juxtapositions, contradictions, etc. the mountain goats have this imminent doom within each song so reminiscent of addiction and.. oh. god. its brilliant

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General CommentI completely agree with RedDwarf. This is the exact same reaction that I had to the song. At first I thought it had to be intended as black comedy. Then I listened again and that time it struck me as basically serious. There's a certain sense of ridiculous because the lyrics are so cutting that they don't mesh with the melody in the way that you'd expect. I think that's intentional and there's meant to be an ambiguity in that he's not entirely sure if he really means what he's saying in the really harsh way that the words suggest. It's saying something so terrible that it sounds like it must be an ironic joke, but there's an unsettling level of seriousness behind it.

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My InterpretationI think there a few interpretations

The first being obvious, a couple who hate each other. The music itself may be a hint towards the lyrics also. The song sounds like a happy sing along song, but once you look deeper you see that it is sad and depressing, maybe like their marriage. They are stubborn and neither one wants to be the one to give up, supported by this lyric here:

I hope it stays dark forever
I hope the worst isn't over
And I hope you blink before I do
And I hope I never get sober

I think it's him saying he can and will beat her. They don't love each other and stick with each other because it's comfortable, supported by this (other's have said that's the way alcoholics are. I don't drink, but that's how I am with my current relationship, it's just comfortable):

I am drowning
There is no sign of land
You are coming down with me
Hand in unlovable hand

If he is depressed with no sign of hope, then he is going to make sure she will also be depressed.


The above doesn't make much sense though. Maybe there's a different meaning?:

I hope I lie
And tell everyone you were a good wife
And I hope you die
I hope we both die

Why would he lie if he hates her so much?


And I hope when you think of me years down the line
You can't find one good thing to say


I think what the above is saying is that he thinks this is all his fault. Maybe it's his fault there are no children. He wants her to blame him but some reason she won't. Maybe it isn't a mutual hate, maybe he hates her and she doesn't hate him. We only assume the hate is mutual, but what if she is forgiving and he isn't? What if he hates himself because he can't provide children.


And I'd hope that if I found the strength to walk out
You'd stay the hell out of my way


He wants to leave the relationship because he feels guilty, but he knows he won't be able to if she stops her. That might be why he wants her to hate him.



Well, there are a couple different interpretations in there, so either one might be true. Hel, neither could be true.

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General CommentIve been listening to this song nonstop for about two weeks no. And the lyrics are what make it. Fed up. Melancholy with an optimistic tone. Every word is literal and blunt, but somehow there's still a little bit of ambiguity at the end. The whole song just completely embodies that kind of relationship. Having known old, drunk, mutually abusive couples that stay together until death, it's an all too accurate portrait, with bukowski-esque imagery.

Brilliant song.

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General Commentit strikes me that this is just one chapter in a long story of the alpha couple's relationship. if you would refer to the song oceanographer's choice (very weird tittle) the line

And then we fell down
And we locked arms
We knocked the dresser over as we rolled across the floor
I don't mean it when I tell you
That I don't love you any more

this happens to be the second to last song. perhaps they mearly expirence a wide range of feelings.
Thanx to fromthehouseoflords comment about the changing of lyrics live. i would give many a bodily appendage to see them. consider yourself blessed.

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