| Elton John – Can You Feel The Love Tonight? Lyrics | 13 years ago |
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Please don't mind the frequent posting but I wasn't able to put this all into one comment (scrolling is very hard at a certain comment length). ... to finish the "... that we got this far" passage : As mentioned above, Elton John was not the text writer but I'm sure it fits his situation pretty well. We was running around for the perfect partner and has already given up hope to find a sustaining love when he met someone ... "Can you feel the love tonight? How it's laid to rest" -> the love can breathe in this moment; the stress is far away and they are in a hidden place (especially important for homosexuals due to their shame; their love can unfold and is no longer suppressed as it has been for the preceding part of the day) "its enough to make kings & vagabonds believe the very best" -> their love is so strong - even if kings or vagabonds felt that love in their heart they would turn into good people "Theres a time for everyone if they only learn that the twisting kaleidoscope moves us all in turn" -> you have to let the feelings carry you - don't try to control them "theres a rhyme and reason to the wild outdoors when the heart of this star-crossed voyager Beats in time with yours" -> fate makes people come together - it just happens Of course my interpretation can be very far away from the actual meaning but it is one which seems reasonable to me right now. What is your opinion ? |
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| Elton John – Can You Feel The Love Tonight? Lyrics | 13 years ago |
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... by the way, for gay people it is even harder to find the right partner than for heterosexuals ! Imagine, as a young gay teenager you have your first true romance (hidden from the public; at that age even a lot of heterosexual Teens might have a short homosexual phase -> therefore it is still easier to find love for gay Teens). After this first romance you know what love is, but first of all there's only a small crowd to choose from (a lot of homosexuals hide their sexuality and if they wouldn't, they would still be a small minority) and secondly you hate yourself and your sexuality because a lot of people have prejudices and just tolerate your sexuality on the surface, if so. This makes many adult gays run around like suicidals. For some of them the self-hatred is so huge that they don't care about AIDS and don't mind death at all. I'msure that a lot of them end up dead, ill, mentally insane or lonely. - Just because we treat them as outcasts. @werumm : Since one of my best friends is gay I am able to talk WITH gays instead of just talking ABOUT them. This enables you to know the feelings and attitudes of these interesting people. @all-american girl : They are very good at what they're doing because what they create with their hands and their brain is the only way to learn to accept the face in the mirror, while their sexuality destroys any self-respect. |
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| Elton John – Can You Feel The Love Tonight? Lyrics | 13 years ago |
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Hi folks, after having read your comments and thinking about this song. I'm coming up with my own interpretation. "Theres a calm surrender to the rush of day" -> calmness in the evening "when the heat of a rolling world can be turned away" -> to switch off the stress of the outside world "An enchanted moment and it sees me through" -> the moment (feelings) is (are) guiding him "its enough for this restless warrior just to be with you" -> I think that Elton likes this part because he has organized many charity concerts and sees himself as a warrior for a better world (although he has not written the text by himself) ... and now the warrior is taking a break although he normally spends a lot of energy in his life-work ("it's enough ... just to be with you") "Can u feel the love tonight? it is where we are" -> obvious meaning "Its enough for this wide-eyed wanderer that we got this far" -> I am a heterosexual and went through the same situation : You are scanning the world around you for the perfect partner to stay with for the rest of your life ("wide-eyed wanderer"). For me it was the hardest 4 years of my life having experienced life quite intensively and after that having an endless search for another love to replace the great love before. Especially the first love leaves deep footprints on your heart as you know ... |
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| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 13 years ago |
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@chillsboro : You have posted the first alternative theory which I can support. It would fit the text as well as the theory I came from. Thanks for this reply. @others : I'm sorry for having repeated arguments above but what should I do if most of your replies are repetitions of old arguments as well ? I suggest to bring in new facts and work with the text to make us all move forward. Repeating weak arguments doesn't make those arguments much stronger. Thanks |
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| R.E.M. – The Great Beyond Lyrics | 15 years ago |
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@Badood : I've just read the whole songtext again having your Andy Kauffman idea in my mind. I don't know Andy Kauffman too well but I wonder if there's really an unambiguous keyword that would allude to him. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I've got the impression that you have just drawn your conclusion on the feeling that some passages sound quite funny (pushing an elephant, etc.). Thus you've said that the song must allude to a comedian and what is closer than to choose Andy Kauffman who is mentioned in the song "Man on the Moon" ? The reason that I don't believe in the Andy Kauffman theory is that none of the strophes fit that idea. Look at the passages "And sleep sweet dreams? Me and you with wings on our feet" and "Sweetest dreams of you I'm looking to the stars I'm looking to the moon". In my opinion this passages ain't funny but they express a desire rather than a joke. Maybe it helps if you step through all lines of the text and give a short comment how this fits the Andy Kauffman thing. Right now I'm still convinced that the narrator of this song wants to persuade someone of a certain idea or ideology. Considering songs like "Bad Day", "Disturbance at the Heronhouse" and "It's the end of the world as we know it" I still claim that this song is meant politically (left winged). I think that he wants to persuade someone of the idea to have a world beyond capitalism (please look at my earlier comments for details). Recently I have seen an R.E.M. live concert in Berlin and my impression of Michael was strengthened. He is no person who writes songs with random texts and he is someone who wants to change the world (he told us fans to join Amnesty International and Oxfam). |
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| R.E.M. – Pretty Persuasion Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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Hi folks, I was very surprised to find a debate on sexuality according to this song. However, there are some hints that seem to be reasonable but still there is one passage that doesn't fit in my opinion : "It's what I want, hurry and buy All has been tried, follow reason and buy Cannot shuffle in this heat, it's all wrong Try to put that on your sleeve it's all wrong, it's all wrong" My interpretation for this part is the following : Since the first two lines are about "buy" I would say that he alludes to the current society. Corporations use any possibility to persuade us to buy their products. They do it in the newspapers, on boxes, in the cinema, on TV, in the internet, ... - everywhere ! Michael is one who's not feeling good in this society ("Cannot shuffle in this heat") and who doesn't want PRETTY PERSUASIONS. He thinks that big companies try to confuse people ("pure confusion") making them believe that they need all the useless products although they don't (also see the song "Begin the Begin" - it is similar). The phrase "wear that on your sleeve" is used in a lot of his songs and seems to be an advise to oppose excessive consumption (and maybe even the whole society as one) openly. One can wear a sign of a party or organization on one's sleeve. This is like "wearing" the own political statements. In other words : show your opposition to the rest of the world because "silence means approval" (from the song "Begin the Begin"). I hope that this idea can make the discussion more interesting. |
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| R.E.M. – Finest Worksong Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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I agree with the revolution theory ("rearrange"). However, I am thinking about the following phrase : "You're better best to rearrange" What did he mean with it ? Did he mean to stop Reagan's attacks on the social systems before everything is lost or did he mean that a revolution always turns into a bloody contra-revolution if it gets lost ? Did he mean that IF you make a revolution you'll have to forget your fears and to fight with all your power and passion to avoid a flashback to the old order ? |
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| R.E.M. – Disturbance At The Heron House Lyrics | 16 years ago |
| I agree to "ZinbobDan" and "rikdad". Michael talks about a revolution here. Mighty people often tend to think that they can always keep poor people under control - neatly separated from each other. Yet I think that common suppression and tough exploitation can bring them together in a very strong community that is willing to fight for another world in solidarity while the mighty still think they can buy them. | |
| R.E.M. – The Great Beyond Lyrics | 16 years ago |
| @others : What do you think, is my theory about this song correct or not ? | |
| R.E.M. – The Great Beyond Lyrics | 16 years ago |
| @Affa : Nevertheless it was worth considering this idea. Such a debate enriches this forum with arguments and brings us closer to a solution (the true meaning of this song). Thank you for the fair discussion. | |
| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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@dclovely : I'd really like to believe your simple theory but there are too much questions. If you had read my comments intensively you would have your doubts about the "nice landscape theory" as well. What about the album title ? What about other radical political songs which Michael has composed in a land where you are treated as a criminal if you doubt anything about capitalism ? I have seen the same phenomenon in my own country (former GDR) as well. People were suppressed by a violent dictatorship. Thus artists had to hide their criticism. I think that Michael criticizes his society in a lot of his songs. Why did he use phrases like "hated heat" if he just wants to create a beautiful picture ? What about "put my children asleep" ? I have never seen a train driver who puts his children asleep while he is steering a train but maybe you have. Don't you see it ? It doesn't make sense. It might be that my theory is as wrong as yours but something is not normal about this song. It must have a deeper meaning. Everything is stinking. Example : "all they hear is sky-blue" Sometimes I have the impression that some of you want to put me and others asleep who try to think of the authentic meaning of this song - just to keep the good old peace. Go on sleeping if you want to sleep. However, my generation is waking up. It is waking up in a world that offers young people nothing more than tough exploitation, poverty, war and environmental destruction. They try to put us asleep by telling us that there is no money but why do banks spend so much money on very very dangerous investments as they did in the current real-estate crisis ? The answer is : There is so much money on earth that they don't know where to spend it. Don't stop asking questions - no matter if they are about the current society or if they are about a song. As long as there are serious doubts in my head that this song has no deeper meaning I will not stop asking my questions. |
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| R.E.M. – The Great Beyond Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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@anevans : Your theory is very strange but I really tried to read the text from this point of view. There are some pictures that seem to fit your explanation but there are also some questions that I wasn't able to answer if I considered the whole thing a drug song. In my opinion the whole first strophe wouldn't fit this drug theory. Could you please explain how you would interpret this passage ? I have not taken drug in my whole life and I won't do it until I die but I always thought that most of them are famous for their smooth and light feeling. So why does he sing "I'm pushing an elephant up the stairs" ? Is it really typical of a drug addicted to "talk of time" ? What does it mean then ? I always thought that drugs make you forget the time. How would you interpret this piece of text then ? My last question after a raw walkthrough is the following : Michael sings that he is looking for "answers from the great beyond". When I think of this song as a drug song I would think that he wants to kill himself with drugs. Does that really fit the mood that this song is creating ? In "Feeling gravity's pull" he builds up a kind of dark mood in the strophe by using a special music style. Why didn't he use those stylistic means here as well ? I think that this song rather sounds optimistic and that the narrator is achieving something that was important for him. @Affa : I completely agree with your "achievement" theory . There are a lot of phrases that indicate that he wants to achieve something ('bending spoons', 'pushing an elephant up the stairs', ...). Yet if I have understood the "Nirvana" definition on Wikipedia (German version) correctly it says that you are completely freed from any desires, dreams and thoughts while you experience the Nirvana. It is said to be a kind of pictureless state of mind. So why should he look for answers there ? What answers can such a state of mind give ? (please read the Wikipedia article and correct me if I'm wrong or if the German version is too lousy) Why does Michael sing 'I want the hummingbirds, the dancing bears Sweetest dreams of you' if Buddism means getting rid of dreams an desires ? Why should he try to persuade anyone else to be a Buddist as well ? This would be a desire and it would be releated to a reality that Buddhists try to wash away from their minds. Any answers ? I'm still convinced that this song describes a kind of conversation the narrator leads with someone to persuade him of another kind of world (please read my comments bove). |
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| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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@jaysthename : I am glad to see that people in this blog really try to find an interpretation for the song so please don't think that I basically claim to have the correct answer but I have read your interpretation and went through the songtext and have to disagree to a lot of your arguments. You say that this song is a mixture of a description of the South and some kind of Bible stuff. As far as I know from other comments (also from other blogs) Michael is not a Christ but a Buddhist. Which means that he's not on a 'crusade' to make others believers of Jesus Christ. Maybe someone could provide us with any information if he had been a passionate Christ at that time but I'd rather doubt that. Secondly I think that swapping the words 'Fables' and 'Reconstruction' doesn't really make the album more religious. Please correct me if I am wrong but I haven't seen any other song on the CD that might handle the subject 'religion'. So why should he call the whole album like that if he only alludes to religion in one song ? You mention that the part 'Field to wheat is stricken thin' (I found 'fields of wheat are looking thin' on other websites) alludes tho the 'decline of the South'. How does this interpretation fit the first lines of the song. It rather looks like an expanding industry - not like a decline. (see argument 3 and 5) Your fourth argument is very far-fetched. I don't think that 'put the children to sleep' means taking them to the church - not even in old American literature, right ? You've said that it might happen that one is falling asleep in a church but this should be an accident. That's why I wonder why the train conductor wants to put himself and his children 'to sleep' while he actually means taking them to the church. Your second interpretation of 'sleep' is even worse. Everyone knows that those who kill themselves or others will go to Hell. ('Way to put myself, my children to sleep.') That's why I cannot see how 'sleep' fits your interpretation of death in this song. Considering all of these facts and all the arguments of my previous answers I am still convinced that this song is about one of the railway strikes in the 19th century. You will find a lot of songs that show that Michael has a left-winged attitude (e.g. 'Begin the Begin', 'These Days', 'Disturbance at the Heronhouse', ...). |
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| R.E.M. – The Great Beyond Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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*Harrharr* What a joke ! What about discussing my proposals in the comments above instead of asking rhetorical questions ? |
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| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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According to the Pullman Strike you might be right. It seems to me now that it was mainly a strike of the railway car production workers although it seems that they got help from the railway workers as well because some Pullman cars were put off the trains. However, at the end of the 19th century there were a lot of railway strikes : Great Railroad Strike (1877, U.S.) Union Pacific Railroad Strike (1884, U.S.) Southwest Railroad Strike (1885, U.S.) Southwest Railroad Strike (1886, U.S.) Great Southwest Railroad Strike of 1886 (U.S.) Burlington Railroad Strike (1888, U.S.) Great Northern Railroad Strike (1894, U.S.) Thus I'm not quite persuaded by your argumentation. Furthermore there are too many text passages and other songs from R.E.M. (e.g. Disturbance at the Heron House, Finest Worksong) that allude to political things. Additionally I have seen Michael on a picture of OXFAM on which he complains about the unfair trade with the poor countries in the South and when you read the songbook of the latest albums you will see that also this author thinks that there are some political aspects in their songs. I don't think that all this has no connection with each other. That's why I still stick to my interpretation in my comments above. |
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| R.E.M. – Feeling Gravity's Pull Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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I have the strange feeling that you try everything to avoid any detailed analysis of the R.E.M. songs. You always use the same argument : "Don't try to see any deeper meaning" Why did they compose those songs with encrypted texts then ? Why did they put so much feelings into most of their songs ? Just because they don't mean anything ? What about songs like "Disturbance at the Heron House" and "Finest Worksong" ? I guess you want to tell me that they are not political as well, right ? Why does he allude to "Man Ray" ? Were his pictures and attitudes so unpolitical ? Why does he use such a heavy sound in the strophe and why such an optimistic sound in the chorus ? I think that this is the key to the content of the song. If it was just about some harmless dream, why didn't he use only optimistic themes ? Your comment doesn't answer my questions. That's why I still stick to my interpretation in the comments above. |
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| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 16 years ago |
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@Kaflerkta : Just reading the songtext on the surface I would agree with you but what about the following phrases. They don't fit you theory at all. Please read my comments about them again and please consider the name of the whole album. Why did they name the album "Fables of the Reconstruction" ??? "We've been on this shift too long" "We can reach our destination, but we're still a ways away" "all they hear is sky-blue" "hated heat" "She is selling faith on the Go Tell crusade." |
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| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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The "Nice Landscape Thesis" ==================== @ratanx : Okay, let's say Michael Stipe gave this album a random name without thinking any deeper. Let's blank out everything else that we know about REM (very political protest songs like "Bad Day", "Welcome to the Occupation", "It's the end of the world as we know it", "These days", "Begin the Begin", "Finest Worksong", "Disturbance at the Heronhouse"). Let's further forget that the author of the cover of REMs album "The best of the IRS Years" is explicitly mentioning that their music was an "enigmaticly" expressed protest against the Reagan Era. Let's imagine someone writing a lovesong about the south ... 1.) Why does he say "We CAN reach our destination" and not "We WILL reach our destination" ? (a serious answer please !) 2.) Why does he sing "Way to shield the HATED heat" ? Have you ever read a beautiful love poem to anything or anybody mentioning the word "hated" ? This is a word that destroys any harmonic picture. 3.) Why should driver 8 put his children to sleep ? Is it normal that a train driver has his children inside the train ? I think it is a little bit far fetched to take this phrase literally. Two lines later he even sings "put myself, my children to sleep". Have you ever seen a train driver putting himself to sleep while he wants to reach his destination in the south ? How does this make sense ? 4.) How does "Got Tell crusade" and "fields of wheat are looking thin" fit your beautiful landscape theory ? Summary ======= I am not willing to ignore the album title, I am not willing to ignore Michaels quite emotional political songs, I am not willing to ignore the text passages from this IRS album that I quoted from and I am not willing to ignore certain passages of the song just because they don't fit in a songmeaning expressing a beautiful landscape in the South of the USA. I don't know if my interpretation is the right one but I am pretty sure that this song is not a harmless description of a beautiful landscape. I still hold the opinion that this song is about the Pullman Strike (please read my preceding comments to see my argumentation for this theory). |
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| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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@MogulX+joeblough : Thank you for enriching the debate and for answering on my comments. I have read your comments very carefully and I have the following things to say. @MogulX : > ... but I'm beginning to suspect that you are > serious. If not, my bad, and a fine job of it > you've done. Yes indeed, I am serious. That's why I went into the details. Unfortunately you hardly did. Neither did you answer most of the questions of my last comment (02-06-2007). I asked them because "the feed" and "ruarchitect" had quite a similar opinion as you have. I invite you to answer them to prove that your theory is right. By now I am not convinced of your weak argumen- tation at all. > The simplest and most obvious interpretation of > thi fine song (my first introduction to REM back > in the 80s, btw) is that it's about a guy who's > driving a train and is really tired. According to > you, however, that's a childish and naive > interpretation of a titanic work of historical > allegory. No, I have considered this kind of view before but it didn't answer my questions and it didn't fit my picture of Michael. That's why I discarded it. Please have a look at songs like "Disturbance at the Heronhouse", "It's the end of the world as we know it", "Bad Day" and "These days". Do you really believe that Michael is the person who loves to talk about the wheather and the beautiful landscape ? That's a little bit too wacky for me. > I believe the lyric means, "take a break, mister > driver, as you've been working for a long time, > and we can get to where we're going without > further effort on your part", rather than a > labyrinthine and intricate allusion to historical > events of the previous century). What about the album title then ? Why did he use the word "Fables" (look at my comments above). > Now, I'm sure > you'll write another long and involved post > supporting your position regarding this song, > which you are entirely free to do. Of course. That's what "democracy" is meant to be. > I think you'll agree that I make a VERY convincing > case... Unfortunately not. Please try again. Thanx. @joeblough > I write songs and know what he is saying, > sometimes a word or phrase... just works. You get > a theme going and there you have it! I'm a songwriter, too. My best songs came to my mind when I had a very strong feeling about something (anger, joy, hatred, love, etc.). That's why I simply doubt the claim that he only wanted to describe the locomotive driver or the landscape here. In other songs you'll find this conflict between seemingly weird texts and strong emotions even more drastically (look at my comments on "These Days"). > ... it ends up in the wrong hands and you have a > violence and hatred because of interpretation!!! > Put down the Cool-Aid!! Thank you for the advice but I'm aware that my comment ain't quite harmless. That's why I'm called "DerUnbequeme" (in German : "The Uncomfortable Guy"). Further I implicitly remarked in the last paragraph of my comment from 12-20-2006 that I consider my ideas about this song just to be a possible approach. summary : I'm still convinced that this song is about the Pullman Strike (please read all preceding comments). |
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| R.E.M. – The Great Beyond Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Shortly after publishing my preceding comment I realized that it was too superficial and didn't describe all the thoughts, feelings and ideas I had in mind about it. Maybe I can open up my mind better this time. Then you would understand why I'm pretty sure to have found out the key to the content. "I've watched the stars fall silent from you eyes - all the sights that I have seen" Eyes are the mirror of the soul. Michael can see through the eyes of his discussion partner that he gets rid of old ideas while he persuades him that they are wrong. Examples : "people are always bad and will always be egoistic", "everybody has the chance to get up to the top (dishwasher to millionary)", "capitalism means freedom". Those lies are spread freely because newspapers seem to be very "independent" although they are just firms that profit from the whole system as well. Often you only need to ask the right questions. Example : Why does Bush treat Saudi Arabia as a friendly partner to bring "peace and democracy" into the Middle East although it is one of the most violent dictatorships in the world ? Such questions can blow up the official lies but only few people ask them. I think that Michael describes a discussion in his song like we have seen in the movie "Matrix I". Keanu Reeves is told that the world he used to know is just an illusion and that the truth is far uglier than his phantasy can reach out. In my opinion Michael says that those (blinding) stars, those lies are falling silently from his discussion partner's mind while he tells him the truth and asks him the right questions. "All the sights that I have seen" shows that it isn't the first discussion of that kind. Michael must have had a lot of difficult discussions like that making people strong enough to look through the "matrix". "There's a new planet in the solar system" I think that this planet stands for the sight of the world that he wants his discussion partner to see (look at the two lines before). It is no blinding star and it is not far away (but in the own solar system). What if we found a new planet in our own solar system ? We would have high hopes and wishes that we might move there one day for the case that our own planet might be collapsing. "There is nothing up my sleeve" When I'm reading this passage I have pictures of arm badges of nazis in mind, I see military signs on the upper arm of a soldier or red badges of striking workers during the German Revolution (1918). I think that to wear something on ones sleeve means that you carry a sign of your political party, of your organization or simply of your (political) attitude with you. Michael obviously does not (at least not during his discussion). Alternatively I would have said that he carries no ideology around but this is wrong. His idea of another world beyond capitalism and the pictures he describes about it, are an ideology itself. "I'm pushing an elephant ..." He's doing a very hard job. He needs to neutralize lies that are spread around every day. It's hard for people to understand that all the things and persons they have put their trust into are just big lies neatly printed on clean white paper. "Im tossing up punchlines ..." He's trying new argumentation lines as he has never used in any discussions before. "Over my shoulder a piano falls ..." The opinion of his discussion partner is crashing to the ground because he is "breaking through". "And all this talk of time ..." I think its useless to repeat all the things I have already said in my last comment. Please read the comment if you want to find out my opinion about this text passage. "I'm bending spoons" Have you ever tried ? It is not the easiest task - especially when the spoon is very strong. "I'm keeping flowers in full bloom" Michaels attitude is to change the world - to make it a planet where people are more important than profits (this would fit the thesis that Michael is a Buddhist). He is trying to keep alive the positive picture of his dream throughout all the critical questions of his discussion partner. Example : "Won't people miss the spirit of competition when capitalism is abolished ?" "Will a non-capitalist economy work properly ?", etc. Can you imagine what a hard job such a discussion can be when all newspapers and TV channels tell the same old fairy tales again and again ? "I'm looking for answers from the great beyond" Michael must feel like the capitalists have felt when they desperately tried to convince people that Feudalism is bad and that their vision of a new society is far better. The problem is : if you never tried out such a new society you can only guess how things will develop then. That's what he means when he says "Im looking for answers from the great beyond". The great beyond is the new society itself. Michael Stipe is a dedicated anti-capitalist to me. "I want the humming birds ..." This line shall express how free and beautiful his desired society can be. "Sweetest dreams of you" I'm not sure if he means his discussion partner with "you" (maybe he is in love with a woman that he wants to persuade). Alternatively he might dream about his vision and "you" does not address a person in this case but the other society. "Look into the stars, look into the moon" I don't know if this is alluding to the same meaning of "stars" as in the first strophe yet this wouldn't make much sense. I believe that he simply creates a romantic picture. Maybe looking into the stars means yearning that his dreams come true for him. Please let me know if my theory has got any holes but if you read the texts from some other songs you come to the conclusion that he ain't satisfied with todays society at all. Examples : "The time to rise has been engaged ..." (Finest Worksong) "Lifes rich demand creates supply in the hand of the powers, the only vote that matters. ..." (Begin the begin) "Shits so thick you could stir it with a stick-free Teflon whitewashed presidency. We are sick of being jerked around." (Bad Day) ... That's why I think that this song is truely meant politically. |
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| R.E.M. – The Great Beyond Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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I have read all of the comments above. You have very interesting theories but I realized for myself that none of those theories fits every line of the song. I would be able to write a whole book to comment them all. That's why I want to cut it shorter and try to fix on central ideas. I think it's obvious that this song expresses doing something that is very hard to achieve. This would be an argument for the Andy Kaufman theory but I wonder that noone realized that this song describes a discussion. Michael speaks from the point of view of a person who wants to persuade someone of something. Please read the text from this point of view and you'll discover that the 'piano' is the attitude of his discussion partner which is crashing to the ground. I think that the same is expressed by the first strophe. There are a lot of weird ideas in the head of the other person. After the discussion ("talk of time", etc.) those 'stars' have disappeared and a "new planet"(a new view of the world ?) appeared in the "solar system". I think that the "punchlines" are argumentation lines and "talk of time" means talking about history. This would make sense when you read my comments from the song "Driver 8". In my opinion "Driver 8" talks about the Pullman Strike (bloody strike of railway workers in 1894). He even named the whole album "Fables from the Reconstruction" which is directly alluding to history (the Reconstruction Era was the industrialization era at the end of the 19th century). Let's come back to "The Great Beyond" and the "talk of time" strophe. I think that he expresses that talking about history is quite easy ("In all the talk of time talk is fine."). You don't hurt anybody's feelings because it has happened a long time ago, you can carefully critizise the present time finding parallels in dark ages and you can express how things have developed and come so far. Yet he says that he doesn't want to "stay around". He wants to draw conclusions for the present time and even dream sweet dreams of a future as it could be ("with wings on our feet"). Further text about these dreams can be found in the strophe "I want the hummingbirds, ...". I think the phrase "sleep sweet dreams" is not meant literally. He could also have said "imagine if the world was like that ..." (as John Lennon did in his song "Imagine"). I found the comment about Buddhism quite interesting since I didn't know that Michael is a fan of this religion. However, Buddhism means to refuse any centralism (e.g. quite centralistic presidential regime in the USA) or dictatorship (like China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea,...). That's why in some of those countries Buddhism is forbitten. A society disrespecting nature for sake of higher profits and treating human beings as working machines is quite the opposite of this religion. I think that he is a passionate Anti-Capitalist. Maybe his political and Buddhist attitude is also a key to explain what he meant with "religion" in "Losing my Religion". I don't know if I'm right in my explanations but I think if we want to discover the core of his songs we cannot just pick out pieces of his texts and albums. We have to see his work as a whole. |
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| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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@the feed : You said ""Notch 8" is the highest notch on a locomotives throttle. ". Don't you think that this is a little bit far fetched ? In my opinion "8" is the number of the train and "Driver 8" is the driver that belongs to this train. Your impression is that Michael only wanted to compose a song to describe the nice landscape that you can see from a train. If this is really true, why does he focus on the driver of the train and not on any passenger ? Why did he call the album "Fables of the Reconstruction" (artists always used 'fables' in the Medieval Age when they indirectly wanted to criticize the king or the ruling class; they used animals instead of humen beings to pretend that their story is harmless). Another thing : If he really wanted to focus on the beautiful landscape - why does he only describe it in 10 of 31 total lines of this song ? There are other things indicating that there shall be a deeper meaning : 1.) Why did he use the word "can" in the phrase "We can reach our destination" ? If I interpreted it from your point of view I would formulate it like that : "it is not sure that our train will arrive at its planned destination but it is still possible". Do you really think that this makes sense ? For a regular train ? 2.) Why does Michael sing "all they hear is sky-blue" (even separated by commas from the rest of the sentence) ? If he really meant the blue sky, why didn't he sing "all they SEE is sky-blue" ? Is there anything beautiful on a train journey to hear which sounds "sky-blue" ? 3.) In the line "Way to shield the hated heat." he sings "hated". If I wrote a song which shall be harmless and beautiful, why should I use a nasty word like "hated" ? 4.) Michael sings "Way to put myself to sleep." and "Way to put myself, my children to sleep.". Which children does he mean ? Will the train driver put himself and his children to sleep inside the train ? So who will drive the train then ? This song is too short to mention useless details so why shall Michael focus on sleeping while he wants to describe the beauty of the South and its landscape ? 5.) How does "She is selling faith on the Go Tell crusade." fit your explanation ? What faith and what crusade does he allude to ? Can you see that your theory of the songmeaning reaches out too short ? 6.) Why didn't he call this album "Happy journeys through the South" if he really meant nothing politically ? (although this title would be even more sarcastic !) Instead he used "Fables of the Reconstruction" (please look at my comments from Dec'06). @ruarchitect : Yes, he alludes to society and yes, he alludes to progress in a certain kind. This song really fits the title of the album "Fables of the Reconstruction" because the first strophe alludes to the industrialization era (the Reconstruction era). Please have a look at my comments from Dec'06 and let's talk about what you think of it. In my opinion this song alludes to the Pullman Strike in 1894. |
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| R.E.M. – These Days Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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According the yanked-up hat I would agree that he refocusses on something again that he once lay down. However, you can bet that this song is meant politically. It has a very strong and emotional music and there are some passages that even show anger : "I wish to eat each one of you ..." and "take away the scattered bones of my meal" Let's say something to the album and the time when this song was produced. The album is called "Lifes rich pageant" which (as far as I know) followed the album "Fables of the Reconstruction" where Michael hid very strong critics about society behind "Fables" from the history of the end of the 19th /beginning of the 20th century. I don't think that Michael suddenly felt like having a pageant since the bloody Reagan era was far from being ended up. Therefore I think that the whole album is a sarcastic one. The title "These days" must allude to something in the past or in the future that he is expecting. If you look at the persons mentioned in the song you will find four parties : "you" (happy throngs), "we" (some kind of people causing hope despite the times), "I" (someone determined to do anything if necessary -> 'march into the ocean...') and "all the people" (majority ? carrying their burden for themselves ? getting more and more isolated ? Being exploited more and more ? -> Reagan Era wasn't quite a great fun as the current Bush Era ain't !). Okay, let's go into the details. Let's find out the relation to the "happy throngs" In my opinion he hates the "happy throngs". In the first strophe he only says the he want's to rearrange their scales which might mean that he will surprise them how determined and angry he is. In the second strophe he asks about the things they have in common with him. He only wants to know 3 similarities but there is not even one (no answer is given) because they are quite the opposite. In the 3rd strophe he openly shows his hatred : "I wish to eat each one of you ...". Some optimistics might say "he loves the happy throngs - that's why he wants to eat them". Yet this wouldn't fit the enormous anger of the music which is even incresed at the end (especially by nasty noises after the 3rd strophe). Another evidence : "Take away the scattered bones of my meal"(at the end). In my opinion this song is used to let the hatred out about the Reagan gouvernment and the false joy and optimism they planted into society. Making people believe that by cutting the incomes and social funds and by weakening unions all problems are solved forever. Mr Reagan was a true "Mr Capitalism". That's what Michael hated about him - just as he hated this system in the song "Driver 8" (very likely goes about a huge strike of railway workers in 1898) and in the song "It's the end of the world as we know it" In my opinion he thinks that there will be a revolution somewhen (these days) and that those happy throngs (spreading optimism about capitalism) can take their joy to wherever they will disappear. Let's deal with "all the people". All he says about them is that they carry each his burden. It could allude to the spreading egoism that the Reagan Era caused. - Growing isolation, growing competition, growing social problems (burdens) that people had to face. Yet somehow I have the impression that puts "all the people" and "you"(happy throngs) together when he sings "... wherever, wherever you ... carry each his burden" in the last chorus. He links those phrases together ! Is this just an accident ? I think that "all the people" and "you" (happy throngs) is the same. It is people pretending that everything is alright, who don't care about others, who like to celebrate ("Lifes rich pageants") although they are completely destroyed inside - drowning in their own tears but they want push the problems away, they put parfum on a stinking society, they make the music louder not to hear the beggars and they like to party to forget that they have worked all day long and will do so until they die. There are two questions remaining : Who is "we" ? (I assume that he is one of hopeful "we" group himself"). And why are they "hope" ? According to the first question I would say that he is one of a special generation of students or people that are very radical and determined to end capitalism somewhen. I don't know to what extend Michael was influenced by the Sixties but I think he was to young at that time. He must have been in a kind of Maoist or other revolutionary left-winged movement that emerged from 1968/1969 or he was influenced by those ideas. I think that this also answered the second question. They are hope because they know how to think about capitalism and they know how to read the newspaper articles and how to listen to propagandistic TV and radio spots. They will keep the spirit of revolution alive until the time is right to rise up. I hope that I'm now too far away from the actual message Michael wanted to broadcast and hope that you write your comments on my considerations. |
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| R.E.M. – Feeling Gravity's Pull Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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My comment above may seem a little bit far fetched because I have (unvoluntarily) omitted some details. Now I'm trying to work out concrete evidences for my thesis. One important thing was already said : It must be something about history ("Fables of the Reconstruction") and he mentions "Man Ray" who was a dedicated Dadaist. The main Dadaist movement existed in the dark years until the Mid-Twenties of the 20th century. I think that this is the time we shall look at and Man Ray moved to Europe in that time to find a continent that was shook by the most brutal war ever seen before and where there were still revolutionary activities against capitalism. However, one already said, that the last paragraph of the song is played in a very dark mood. Let's look at the text at that part : Let me transform the sentence "... had harnessed the tame. Holding the sky in their arms" to an own version : "... had harnessed the tame ones while they were holding the sky in their arms." In my opinion he talks about people who have already reached their sky but they were too tame to "stomp gravity into the floor" (see first paragraph). Maybe "peel back the mountains peel back the sky" might mean to save the "mountains" (whatever it means) and the "sky" from gravity. To pull it away from gravity. Since the time around 1920 were revolutionary years I think that "gravity" means the old system and the only system that still pulled back anything was not monarchism but capitalism. Thus I think that the hope (the sky) inside this song is a world free of capitalism and war. |
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| R.E.M. – Feeling Gravity's Pull Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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I would agree that the content of this song has something to do with dreams or hopes. Yet I wonder why noone has said anything about the title of the album and about 'Man Ray'. The album is called "Fables of the Reconstruction" and describes the time of the huge economical growth in the USA at the end of the 19th century. I think that every or at least most of the songs of this album describe historical things. Man Ray was an artist. He belonged to the Dadaist movement which was a kind of protest against the society of that time. What was the world like in that time ? The competition of the growing industrial countries (especially in Europe) for markets and ressources had caused the most violent time in history so far(the 1st World War and huge exploitation of the colonies). Millions of people were killed. Beautiful nature, countryside and towns were damaged by bombs and chemical weapons. A lot of people had to escape from violence and hunger. This was the time were a lot of people dreamt of another world. The Dadaists changed the style of art as protest (look at Wikipedia.com to find out something about Dadaism), workers in St. Petersburg overthrew the Tsar and took the power on their own and in nearly all European countries new left-winged anti-capitalist movements emerged. The majority of the European people did realize that capitalism and ruthless greed was the reason for this war and they wanted something else. There were a lot of uprisings and capitalism was nearly on the edge. In my opinion Michael Stipe expresses the conflict between 'the sky' (emerging anti-capitalist movements dreaming of another world) and 'the gravity' (those who wanted to reinstall the old order of profit and exploitation). |
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| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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The last strophe was puzzling me too much to stay calm. I am not sure but I think I have a clue what master Stipe wants to say with it. In my opinion the first two lines of the 3rd strophe are examples of how the truth about the railway strike and the idea of a world free of capitalism is spread. He mentions the example of a pilot listening to this song thinking about the content and he mentions 'she' who spreads those ideas in her "Go Tell crusade" (going around, talking to lots of people about it - persuading them that we can rule this world from the bottom). On the other hand he tells in the last line of the strophe that the wheat is still looking thin (the movement is not strong enough to end capitalism around the world). It might be that my interpretations are very far away from the authentic meanings, yet since I have seen Michael on some posters from "Oxfam" and since I have the impression that a lot of his songs express a kind of rebellion I think that my political interpretation is not the wrong way to approach to this songtext. |
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| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Some more evidents to my thesis : The first two lines ('the walls are ... one by one') directly allude to the Reconstruction era (enormous industrial growth in the USA). In my opinion the author wants to put us to the bloody end of the railway strike. Imagine, the workers had to accept a cut of 25% of their income and some of their colleques were shot death, injured and arrested. Do you know how they felt ? First of all they have seen that the gouvernment did not protect them but the profit interest of the factory owners (even by shooting some workers dead !). Secondly they felt the power of sticking together (they had a lot of control for several months). In my opinion a lot of those railway workers must have smelt the oportunity to dismiss all bosses and abolish capitalism. They must have felt like changing history and not being a helpless object anymore. I think that 'Way to shield the hated heat ...' means to accept the end of the strike temporarily but to keep the experience 'another world is possible' in mind and give those experiences to the next generation ('... my children to sleep') until the time is right for such things. Another thing : I don't know if anybody has realized the expression 'sky-blue'. It is neatly separated by a comma and is absolutely not meant as a colour of the bells. I don't know if Michael wants to switch over to the present time in the second strophe. However, I do think that 'sky-blue' is meant as the offical lies about what actually happened and as the offically spread perverted version of history that pupils learn in school today. One part I have not been able to decrypt is this one : 'He piloted this song ...'. Yet one thing is for sure : The word 'crusade' indicates that the content of this strophe is not simple and meaningless. Please post an article if you have any idea. Thanx a lot. |
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| R.E.M. – Driver 8 Lyrics | 17 years ago |
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Well, let's collect all the facts. This song is from the album "Fables of the Reconstruction". That means it alludes to history in the middle and late 19th century. Since I think that Michael Stipe is a supporter of the anti-globalization movement he must be alluding to some historical event from the left-winged movement connected to the topic 'railway'. I think that he alludes to the big strikes of the railway workers in 1894 (Pullman Strike). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike In my opinion he wants to say 'learn from history', 'learn from the experiences of those days', 'shield the hated heat' (keep the flame of uprising inside) and 'do it better next time'. I think that he encrypted this message because he had to fear persecution by the police. In my opinion it is necessary to encrypt such messages in the USA today as well. Since it might be that they treat you as a 'terrorist' because of disobedient attitudes (lots of people arrested in Guantanamo Bay did not have a fair process for several years; the gouvernment of the USA refuses fundamental rights to those captives although it is not prooved that they are terrorists) |
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