Will: But we fucked up that remedial English class because we were smoking pot and not in college

Jeff: Right

W: Now we're not in college are we?

J: So how do you move on to that new place to shop if you haven't taken that remedial English class and you've got these pieces to the puzzle that won't fit together and your parents are like . . . eating blood wafers

W: Grow sideburns

J: Sideburns?

W: They really help

J: Really?

W: Yeah. They give you that distinctive look

J: They do

W: Like standing out in the crowd. They really do. And I . . . that's why I don't think I fit in

J: Because you don't have any sideburns?

W: I can't grow them

J: Why not?

W: They just always don't look right, I just cut them off

J: That's terrible

W: See the problem is you can't find the puzzle with the guy watching "Price is Right" and eating blood wafers. See, they have one with your family, you just haven't been to the right place, you haven't seen the ones - it makes it easier to put together when it's your family members face right there, right in front of you in puzzle pieces. It's just that you don't know the fat man. But when it's your family . . . you realize what it's all about

J: But you see, I bought the puzzle with the rat on the treadmill and the farm and the, uh, decapitated goats

W: That's the problem. You have to get the ones with the wafers and the bloody trousers and your family

J: But I've already got all these puzzle pieces that are stuck together now, that are a part of me now, I mean you can't say like, once you become part of the puzzle piece you can't really separate yourself from it anymore

W: So that makes you an artist

J: I know but, I've got to get some more puzzle pieces

W: You're an artist. You make your own pieces. Use wafer, use pieces of wafer, use pieces of thumb tacks

J: But what am I going to do with all these weird puzzle pieces that weren't even supposed to be part of me in the first place? I mean I tried to keep my eyes open, I tried to like, be very aware of what puzzle I was buying and when I opened the box I tried to be very aware of like, the pieces and make sure all the pieces were what was on the box. But then I shoved the pieces together and it was too late! It was all these disjointed like, body figures and I tried to convince myself it was a flower but it was not a flower, man! It was not a flower! And -

W: You know why right? I'm telling you, I know the answer and it's this: do you remember when you were talking about putting the thumb, the push pin and the blood

J: Right . . .

W: Doesn't it all make sense now?

J: No!

W: Did you, did you find the sideburns in the puzzle?

J: No!

W: They're in the bottom, they're taped to the bottom. Can I use them? Can I please staple them on? That is the key

J: You can do whatever you want. What you don't understand is that I thought it was a flower. But it wasn't, ok? It was part of the rat on the treadmill and it was this dude's legs watching "The Price is Right". Ok? And it was part of the blender. And I - I convinced myself for so long that it was a flower, I mean I spent years and years and years convincing myself that these puzzle pieces added up to a flower when it wasn't at all and then once I woke up I realize: how do I trust other pieces? How do I take new pieces and put them together with this much you know, vigor as I once did? Because what if, what if they're not a flower either, they're just like -

W: They've got to be animal pieces, they might be animal pieces. Pieces of goats?

J: Well, that's what I was trying for! There was like, a rat and a goat in the whole thing and the goat just like didn't have any hands

W: And you bought this at Wal-Mart?

J: And that's all I wanted. That's all I wanted, I mean since I was a kid. Since I was a kid! And you know, and it was just -

W: So you never have gotten the puzzle together?

J: No . . .

W: Ever?

J: No . . . they're all these disjointed pieces that I convinced myself to be flowers

W: You have a serious problem, young man

J: I know I do. But I don't think I'm much different than anybody else. I bet everybody else has got a bunch of like, pseudo-flowers in their pockets that are really just pieces of this weird puzzle that aren't supposed to fit together

W: No

J: I mean I hope I'm not alone in this thing, you know?

W: You are

J: Well, it sure feels that way, you know when I go to the newsstands and stuff and read the magazines and everybody seems to have their flower so perfectly put together, you know? Because what they do is like, they can take you into a studio and they can take your photograph and make it look like you've got pieces puzzled together really well, you know, and they can do anything these days. They way you package -

W: It's all computers. They've got their shit together

J: Right, they can make it look like you've got your flower together when you really don't. But it makes the people who don't have their flowers together feel really small and insignificant

W: You are . . . but that's what makes all the difference. You're an artist

J: But I'm not insignificant. Because my flower isn't any more pressed together than anybody else's flower. I mean, and I guess if I had a record company or something that could like take my photo and make it look like my flower was together then I'd be ok, but I'm not, I don't want to do that because then all these people with their flowers pressed together would be coming to me like, treating me like I was someone who had my flower put together when I don't, and it would be a big lie. And then I'd be doing Swanson TV Dinner ads when I was 15 and be real smug and commit suicide on the Brooklyn Bridge. There wouldn't be much point in that, would it?

W: No . . . you're an artist. I've told you a hundred times. You see, the part that you don't understand . . . . what is there to not understand? I, I, it's so hard for me to explain it to you because, I see that you, you're a bit off actually

J: I'm very off. I didn't realize how off I was until I pulled my pieces of my puzzle out of my pocket and saw it for what it really was

W: Did you try tape?

J: It was stuck together! I wish I could pull them apart. If I could pull them apart it'd be ok but I can't. They're stuck together

W: I see

J: Now I came home and showed my folks, and I was really proud of my flower and that's when I realized . . .

W: You should be in college

J: I should be in college, yeah

Lyrics submitted by camkid2

Conversation with Robert Schneider (Will Cullen Hart) song meanings
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  • +1
    General Commenti'm so glad someone added this dialogue. for serious. and yeahh this really actually does have some substance/meaning to it.
    esp towards the middle-end
    seethe_worldon July 27, 2007   Link
  • 0
    General Commenti'm not sure if they were under the influence of any substances while this went down (most likely), but it is really funny to listen to. Jeff's point makes a lot of sense actually once you get over how many times they throw in random sentences and words. I think that the things Jeff says tell a lot more about him than we have read in interviews so far and gives a bit of insight into his mind in terms of song writing. funny too when he talks about "if i had a record label" since this was recorded before they got any publicity.
    camkid2on July 22, 2007   Link
  • 0
    General CommentThis conversation is actually between Jeff Mangum and Will Cullen Hart (of Olivia Tremor Control) from the unreleased cassette, "Beauty"
    Mellow_Harsheron September 11, 2007   Link
  • 0
    General CommentI get Jeff. Mr. William here seems a little off... at least with how to relate to the infamous Mangum.
    Blistering Preeon October 18, 2007   Link
  • 0
    General CommentI seriously think this might be my favorite thing off 'Beauty'. The more I hear Jeff talk and sing the more I love him.
    crkdrainon November 24, 2007   Link
  • 0
    General CommentI see this conversation in terms of my own experience, which is based upon growing up with a pure ideological belief that becomes shattered by the senselessness of the world. If you spend the first couple decades of your life devoted to and fervent about Jesus or Allah or even humanity or love or beauty...without any room for compromise, and then you suddenly become disillusioned...it's a heartbreaking and confusing transition. The purity, the 'flower', the 'big picture' that is your reason for living becomes fractured and disjointed and ugly. And you can't undo all of the pieces once they fit that way.

    In the end I think he almost wishes that he had followed the crowds of people who did what society expected, who went to college and lived the American Dream. Or at least he could have been a sideburn-wearing, cool rebel-type that fits into an established stereotype that people could understand. But in the end he can't even fit in by standing out in a crowd. Maybe that's one of the things that makes for a true artist. If you become enough of an outcast you can see the world from a distance and recognize what makes it what it is, with all its quirks and stupidities and inadvertent beauties.
    manchldon April 10, 2010   Link
  • 0
    General CommentI don't think anyone, anywhere is really a flower - we just gloss over with a better picture to try and hide the messed up puzzle that we all really are. Of course, this is a subjective view, I tell myself this as a kind of reassurance, and Jeff & Robert/Will talking kinda helps to reassure me that I'm not the only one who feels that there's bits of puzzle piece stuck in my heart that are poisoning the rest of me, but because they're in my heart if I tried to take them out then i'd die, so I have to live knowing that there's a bit of me that's selfish and doesn't care about the life going on outside my own little bubble, but instead just wants to numb myself watching tv and eating 'wafers' (i'm british, so I don't know what they are).Perhaps the solution is to collapse back into an unconnected pile of pieces, or maybe it's to... well, there is where I get stuck :/
    Perhaps the solution is to spend all night listening to old recordings of conversations about decaptiated goats and blood wafers, and then to anonymously pour my heart out in the vain hope that someone out there feels the same, in this terrible, wonderful place.
    theashtreeon January 28, 2011   Link
  • 0
    General CommentIn high school I remember this kid had a party at his parent's house while they were out of town. Throughout the house on prominent display were professional photographs of him, his little brother, and his mom and his dad. All four family members had nice haircuts and sweaters, it looked like the perfect little American family. I'm guessing they went to the mall annually and paid someone to take a picture of them. It creeped me out, and I started wondering why this family was trying so hard to project that image. This dialogue (toward the end, with the discussion of flowers) reminded me of this party.

    What I love about this conversation is that "flower" could be taken to mean anything--a metaphor for having (or not having) your shit together. Those poets are tricky.

    Also, Cullen Hart is obviously talking nonsense in some places, but it's actually interesting when he disagrees with Jeff. I can see it both ways: not having your flower together can be lonesome and frustrating, but it also has its merits (or at least, the awareness of not having it together)
    mcstroon March 28, 2011   Link
  • 0
    General CommentI bet they improvised all of this random shit for the purpose of laughing at the people who attempted to analyze it and give it meaning.
    RaygunShaunon December 26, 2011   Link
  • 0
    General CommentIt sounds to me like they're both on acid or psilocybin mushrooms and are speaking in diarrhea-of-the-mouth type metaphors to each other that they both understand while they are in the moment.
    MugOfSolaron January 31, 2012   Link

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